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[personal profile] imomus
How do we name things? Naming Nature is an interesting BBC Radio 4 programme presented by the poet Ian McMillan. (McMillan also presents The Verb, a weekly 'cabaret of the word' on Radio 3. Along with Laurie Taylor, Radio 4's resident sociologist, I think he's the most distinctive radio voice of the post-Peel age.) The bit about the arbitrary Latin names for plants and animals made me laugh a lot.



Language represents the world, and therefore, like politicians, language inevitably betrays the world. Personally, I'm disturbed by labels, which always seem a kind of mini-betrayal. But I'm also disturbed when things don't have names. For instance, the male haircut (seen on a lot of contemporary dancers, for some reason) with 'something going on at the back' (no, not the mullet with 'a party at the back', I mean just some cute, fluffed, tufty stuff going on behind)? What do you call that? Or the baggy ass hipster jeans we've been seeing for the last couple of years, with their sagging, flat-bummed look, what are those called? I just saw a Wrangler poster featuring a pair, so I see they've made it into major manufacturers' lines. But the only word on the Wrangler poster was 'Wanted'. So tell me what you call these jeans? And how to describe my current look? Heimat Fisherman? Soldier Pierrot? Flip Spiv? When it comes to labels, I sometimes think 'the more the merrier'. That way we retain a bit of anarchy and stop any one label winning.

Browsing around clothes store Belleville the other day, I became totally absorbed in a photo book called Exactitudes. The book, by Rotterdam-based photographer Ari Versluis and stylist Ellie Uyttenbroek, shows page after page of exaggeratedly conformist 'looks', each given a name and gridded twelve to a page. Ari and Ellie's aim was to point up the contradiction between individuality and uniformity by making 'an anthropological record of people's attempts to distinguish themselves from others by assuming a group identity'. Here are three 'Chairmen':



Here are three 'Musulmen':



Here are three 'Bonitas' (a familiar New York type):



Three 'Casual Queers':



And here are three of the only group I could find that seemed to include people who dressed like me: 'Vagabonds'!



One of the reasons I love regular features like Shift's Girls on the Street snaps is that it's so tempting to try to classify and generalize the looks on offer, and yet the attempt is doomed to failure. Looks are never as rigid as the 'Exactitudes' book makes them seem, and often, by the time you've found a word for a look, it's over. If naming and betrayal are closely related, naming can also be akin to killing. The most fascinating moment for a trend-spotter is somewhere between noticing a pattern emerging and knowing what to call it. As soon as a name is found and enters into common use, the look seems rubber-stamped, reproducible, conformist, commercial, ready to be flogged to death then filed away in some costume museum, ready for revival at some later date, primed for hybrids and irony.

Recently I've been enjoying another sort of street observation, more verbal than visual. Japan Today's regular Pop Vox feature (compiled by Sachie Kanda, it might as well be called 'Kanda Camera') links styles to opinions. Ordinary Japanese people are stopped on the street, photographed, and asked about topical issues. We get to see correlations between their looks and their views, between their objective presence in the world and their subjective reflections on it.



What strikes me is how sweet and sane, how tender and community-minded most Japanese are. If you compare their views with the comments posted by the Japan-based gaijin below, remarkable contrasts emerge. The gaijin (mostly American ex-pats) emerge as volatile and irascible vigilantes, proposing extreme solutions and taking the law into their own hands.

Sample answers to the question 'Should people use cell phones while driving?'

Japanese opinion: 'I know it is convenient to be able to call somebody when you get lost, but if you get hurt in an accident, you will regret it afterwards.' Gaijin opinion: 'If I see a car driver talking on his cell phone while I'm out on my motorcycle, I pull up very close to his window and rev the engine to 4,000 RPM. The noise drowns out their conversation and it drives them crazy. Isn't that fun or wot.'

Sample answers to the question 'How do you feel about men reading porn on trains?':

Japanese opinion: 'I wonder how the daughter of one of those dirty old men would feel if they saw their father reading such a magazine or newspaper on the train or wherever? He must be thinking of only his own gratification because he is lonely.' Gaijin opinion: 'The best way to handle those guys is to walk up to them, pull the magazine out of their hands and loudly ask them in Japanese which photograph is their favorite when they pull their johnson. Public shame works well in this culture from what I have seen.'



Sample answers to the question What do you think of bosozuku biker gangs?:

Japanese opinion: 'They sometimes get together near my house, but I'm not afraid of them because they haven't bothered me yet.' First Gaijin opinion: 'One easy tactic solves all your problems. When you see a line of them parked out in front of your local Lawson, place one firm kick to the center of the first bike, then run like hell. Good ol' Domino effect.' Second Gaijin opinion: 'After being woken up repeatly night after night by the noise I soon realized that the police and general population was ready to tolerate these punks... I decided to take matters into my own hands. I saved up some eggs and let them sit out in the sun on my balcony for a few days. Once I had a couple dozen ready to go I decided it was time to shut down the show. With the lights out and the noisy bastards coming down the road I let fly with the eggs from the 8th floor and couldnt stop laughing as a few of the eggs hit their targets and brought forth a barrage of foul language.'

Question: How can Japan preserve the memory of Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

Japanese opinion: 'War is not only the A-bombs that were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945. War is always happening somewhere in the world every day. If the media could report timely news with details such as the use of depleted uranium shells in Iraq, we would still be more aware of the present cruelty of war and human beings.' Gaijin opinion: 'You japanese should stop bitch whipping on every Aug. 06 et Aug. 14. All you deserved it.'

Question: Should porn be wrapped in plastic?

Japanese opinion: 'Even if the plastic bag is intended to prevent kids from looking at obscene materials, preventing them from learning about such things is even worse. Kids will find out about sex in the future anyway. We should teach sex education at an early stage.' Gaijin opinion: 'The only solution is to forget about the magazines, and to wrap anyone under 17 in plastic. This will also cut down on social diseases.'
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(no subject)

Date: 2004-12-08 11:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] 33mhz.livejournal.com
I wonder how the answers would change if the people posting these vigilantist "solutions" were approached at random on the street with these questions and then photographed.

Either way, the J-Today feature reminds me of The Onion (http://www.theonion.com/wdyt/index.php?issue=4049).

(no subject)

Date: 2004-12-08 11:22 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
You're right, it isn't a direct parallel. The message board comments are made anonymously, and the respondents have time to think of something snarky and clever. But I don't think Japanese under any circumstances would propose these vigilante solutions to common problems, akin to putting out fire with gasoline.

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] 33mhz.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-12-08 11:34 am (UTC) - Expand

Questions

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Re: Questions

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Re: Questions

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(no subject)

Date: 2004-12-08 11:35 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
The origin of the baggy ass look is U.S. prisons, isn't it? Prisoners have their belts taken away. So the 'Wanted' poster is ironic, since the wearers are already 'got'.

Since many of those American 'opinions' are clearly Swiftian in their exaggeration, I don't think you can be too sure that the Japanese 'vox pops' really represent the people's views and are not simply expressions of the pressure to conform to a certain notion of the good citizen.

I'd be interested to know what you dislike about Japan, Momus. I mean, surely there must be some things you feel are better done in the West, since life and culture are rarely black and white affairs.

(no subject)

Date: 2004-12-08 11:42 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sarmoung.livejournal.com
I quite enjoy these sections on Japan Today and am very grateful that the gaijin don't get to post their mug shots. All the Japanese people look like the sort I'd be happy to encounter on my way around town. I'd be wary of seeing the Other. Mind you, as one such poster points out, wrapping porn would be pandering to the Japanese packaging fetish. I'd still like to the results though. Imagine...

I'm afraid everytime I see those trousers I will henceforth be thinking Gumby. If you're lucky, you could start a Hokkaido Gumby Boom come the New Year. I'll remember where I saw it first.

(no subject)

Date: 2004-12-08 12:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
'Hokkaido Gumby Boom', another great album title!

I actually would like to see those Japan detractors (Japan Rage Victims, Vicious Circlists, Gasoline Firemen or whatever else we might like to call them) in pictures. I'm fascinated by the link between opinion and self-presentation.

Things I don't like about Japan? Hmm. I don't like the widespread cigarette smoking, the noise pollution, the celeb-comedy TV, J-pop, endless discussion panels and drunken dinners that go on until 3am. More gripes in Kyoto Grump radio (http://www.livejournal.com/users/imomus/2004/09/19/). But Japan is by far the least objectionable country I've ever been to. Foreigners who attack it infuriate me with their bad manners, especially when what they advocate would trigger a horrible series of vicious circles which would degrade Japanese civic life to something approaching American civic life. I agree with one Japanese poster to Pop Vox, who said (http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=popvox&id=411) to the rude gaijin assembled there:

'I'm writing to you all. When I wrote some days ago for my first time, I thought I was writing to normal people that participate in a normal Forum. But after reading some other threads, I noted that you people just like to spent your time criticizing Japan as if the country you belong to (emotionally, mentally or politically) were perfect. I'm very use to it, so not only I can stand it, but I laugh about it, and at the same I simply understand that your attitudes is a clear illustration of what you criticized to those Japanese civilians: you're 'racially supremist', as someone said, that does not let you think about how you are, and just makes you criticize how other are. I really think that your attitudes here show a clear behavior pattern, proper of a culture that never in history tolerate what was different to them.'

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Re: gaijin

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Re: gaijin

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Re: gaijin

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(no subject)

Date: 2004-12-08 12:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jwm.livejournal.com

Or the baggy ass hipster jeans we've been seeing for the last couple of years, with their sagging, flat-bummed look, what are those called?

We call them "Penguin pants", on account of the way that they make the twits wearing them waddle about like penguins.

(no subject)

Date: 2004-12-08 12:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] restingpedant.livejournal.com
Urban Gumby would do very nicely for your present look. If you need to establish it more firmly, in a separate photojournal for example, I see that [livejournal.com profile] urbangumby is currently still available.

(no subject)

Date: 2004-12-08 01:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jimyojimbo.livejournal.com
...and can we please have the "I'm the Urban Gumby" theme song, too?

(no subject)

Date: 2004-12-08 01:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] 33mhz.livejournal.com
Also, the "casual queers" label is spot-on. That's exactly the image I get when I think, "Homosexual Oklahoman."

(no subject)

Date: 2004-12-08 02:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] piratehead.livejournal.com
Somebody once told that despite a few eccentrics and a vibrant popular culture, Japan was an island full of xenophobic conformists with a panty/knicker fetish, sublimating their former imperialist ambitions into infantilistism. I think they might have been talking about England, though.

--Newman the Snarky Gaijin

(no subject)

Date: 2004-12-08 03:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] discoforhire.livejournal.com
Oh the Japanese can't be that lame, leave off

(no subject)

Date: 2004-12-08 03:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] uberdionysus.livejournal.com
I love the Exactitudes book. The only group that had distinct styles within their subgroup was the vagabonds.

where is linnaeus when you need him?

Date: 2004-12-08 05:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bardot.livejournal.com
it strikes me that so many modern terms stem from naming conventions of television writers (my favorite -- the pants tent).

if you haven't, you'd probably enjoy stuart ewen's writing.. i took a class with him a while back and we talked about stereotyping, naming systems, conventions, phrenology, etc. he's currently writing a book about all that went on during that class.

(no subject)

Date: 2004-12-08 05:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mostlymeat.livejournal.com
Those Wacky Japanese!

ps. You are rocking 'hobo chic', totally

pps. Do they make jeans that fit people with no ass? I don't think so. It is impossible to represent ass if you have none.

(no subject)

Date: 2004-12-08 05:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] theilybinilwys.livejournal.com
The hairstyle you refer to might be the 'soft wolf,' the low-key avant-mullet popular among Japanese boys. If it isn't, I still like saying 'the soft wolf'.

So, is semianonymously assholing it up in online forums a uniquely Western phenomenon? Does it seem likely that these same gaijins, photographed and interviewed by a Japanese person on the street, would give the same response they did in the darkness of thir own homes? It seems a bit like comparing 15th century love sonnets to early '90s dive bar pickup lines.

I would be very interested to see a study of Japanese online communities, and their level of random uncivilized assholism.

p.s. thanks to whoever changed my lj icon!

(no subject)

Date: 2004-12-08 06:17 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
That baggy style used to be called "Jailing", but that was 12 or so years ago and I think that term is so out of style it's due to show up on VH1 pretty soon. I'd call it hip-hop lite, for the kind of guy who really just wants to listen to the Beta Band but keeps a couple of Wu Tang albums on his ipod so people won't think he's a tightass.

As to the Japan posts, I think that message board is doubly selecting for assholes--first, US expats, and second, US expats who like to post anonymous asshole remarks. It's like going to a boatshow AND wearing your "God, Guns, and Rock n Roll" t-shirt and seeing who comes up and talks to you.

B

(no subject)

Date: 2004-12-08 07:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] encyclops.livejournal.com
I agree that people's online behavior is usually pretty different from their likely in-person responses. I also wonder what effect the translator had on the tone of some of the answers. Nevertheless, I do think it's funny how many of the young people I know who fetishize Japan and are eager to visit and/or live there are sharply deficient in the area of manners. In my Japanese class are several anime fiends (mostly girls!) who constantly talk in class at full volume and seem to have no sense whatever that they're being rude and arrogant.

That saggy no-assed jean look occasionally has its benefits -- I'm as pleased to see guys' underwear peeking out as I am to see girls' -- but mostly it just makes me want to cry. It's like queerbane...if I see a hot guy and check out his ass only to find that it looks like his pants are drooping from a clothes hanger, I'm instantly turned off. Baggy jeans are great, but please, designers, keep the rear defined! Thank you for your support.

(no subject)

Date: 2004-12-08 07:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mzdt.livejournal.com
Eaxctitudes has been around for a while; great for idle people-watching. I'd recommend http://www.supersnail.com for extraordinary pictures of extraordinary people; all good stuff.

(no subject)

Date: 2004-12-08 09:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] malora-ann.livejournal.com
i've only been reading your journal awhile, so this may be bogus but...

isn't it interesting how you began with naming, labeling, then into the various opinions of people and how they look in reference to what they say.

you do look like a vagabond. how does your vagabond appearance reflect within your own statements? tell me how your "look" is reflected in your words? (to you. i mean, obviously i can make judgements but heck, what do i know?)

(no subject)

Date: 2004-12-08 11:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
I suppose the essential delusion of the vagabond is that there is a space outside society from which society can be judged. A space with no rent, but a great view.

Label for you

Date: 2004-12-08 09:29 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
"Vague-rant"

OR

"Dresses in the Dark"

(no subject)

Date: 2004-12-08 09:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] w-e-quimby.livejournal.com
I agree with you completely with everything in this entry, Momus. And somehow, I think you've managed to understand something about Japanese culture (that also can be generalized to Asian culture) that I have learned to appreciate when I visited S. Korea as a Korean-American. Namely, the internalized and automated culture of putting others (in particular, superiors) before oneself. The hierarchical order is very clear in Eastern culture, whereas it is challenged and imposed in Western culture. Westerners have this internal dialectic of individualism and class/power consciousness; Easterners are brought up with the clear understanding that certain groups of people must be treated with respect such as the elderly, males, the rulers, the teachers, or those higher-up in the business setting (and reversely, the respected should "provide for those who defer to them or are beneath them them with grace" even with simple acts like always paying for the meal when going out, etc). It makes things a lot easier and there is a smoother operation of society, if you can imagine.

(no subject)

Date: 2004-12-09 12:01 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
I think you're right, Margaret. The reactions I quote here (kicking over motorbikes, aggressively confronting letchers on trains, etc) would all lead to escalations of social tension rather than resolutions, to vicious circles rather than virtuous ones. One thing that comes through very clearly in many, many statements by Japanese on Pop Vox is that they don't want a crime-ridden, unsafe society like America's, in which people carry guns, resort to litigation, invade other nations, quarrel rudely or assert themselves in Springer-style battles. They'd rather suffer some inconvenience in silence than see that sort of anomic, individualistic, bitchy, aggressive society develop.

American society prides itself on things like 'phatic assertiveness' and 'meaningless affirmation'. These are both supposed to be liberal values, because the people asserting and being affirmed are usually the weakest members of society, encouraged by identity politics to 'find a voice'. But in fact the only result is more social atomisation and stratification, and more vigilantism. The weak are not 'empowered' by their assertiveness and its affirmation. They simply show that they can be as arrogant as the powerful, but without the power.

'Phatic assertiveness' is what happens when someone, often a member of a minority, is encouraged to state their intention to kick ass in some way, a statement which is greeted with 'meaningless affirmation' in the form of whoops of approval and encouragement. It's a scene repeated over and over in American public life. It's supposed to be a gesture of defiance. In fact, in a way Adam Smith would have understood, it's a gesture of selfishness, a childish desire for revenge and symbolic reparation. Such selfishness has already been calculated, and has its economic niche in American society. Acting with quiet altruism and gentleness, on behalf of others, would be a much more radical and effective gesture.

Assertiveness / affirmation culture ties in with litigation culture, with 'equality of opportunity / inequality of result', and with identity politics and its anomic atomisation of social responsibility. It leads to vicious, not virtuous, circles, and to the erosion of public life. Collectivist societies like Japan's contain the solution to these deep western problems, but unfortunately Americans won't listen. They will try to locate some 'original sin' in collectivist societies, to discredit them even when they demonstrably work well. Americans tend to reject collectivism instinctively, whether it's communism or Asian social structure. They demand 'assertive / affirmative' behaviour from all the cultures they encounter. What's remarkable is how collectivist their individualism actually turns out to be (cue my song 'Robocowboys')...

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] sparkligbeatnic.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-12-09 05:37 am (UTC) - Expand

Sarmoung?

From: [identity profile] sparkligbeatnic.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-12-09 05:41 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

Date: 2004-12-08 10:45 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I followed Momus' link to NEOMARXISME (at http://pliink.com/mt/marxy/) a while back. My suggestion to everyone is to go there and read the dialogue/debate for yourselves (particularly in the comments). Do not just take one person's side of the story. Make up your own mind.

I for one am very impressed with Mr. Marx's contentions. Despite what Momus leads you to believe, the dialogue has been very civil and respectful. The only "Bull in the China shop" has been Momus' tireless rant against the "US culture." Deserving or not, I just see it as a flipside to his defense of Japan at ALL COST.

Also, W_E_QUIMBY should find it interesting as a Korean-American how, for the sake of Japanese manifest destiny, Momus seems to accept/condone Japan's historical role with seemingly no qualms. Defending TODAY'S Japan seems to mean defending every aspect of Japan.

Surely, there are some valid points made by the gaijin community, even when coming from "American" sector...

(no subject)

Date: 2004-12-08 11:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
I think the opposite of this 'manifest destiny' idea (and I have to say it's pretty absurd to apply the phrase to Japan -- it was coined in 1845 by a newspaper editor, John L. O'Sullivan, to describe the white settler's sense of their own entitlement to annihilate Native American settlements: 'the right of our manifest destiny to over spread and to possess the whole of the continent which Providence has given us for the development of the great experiment of liberty and federaltive development of self government entrusted to us...') would have to be 'original sin': the notion that if you can't find Japanese 'sin' in the cited text (here, the Pop Vox statements) you have to go to Japan's treatment of women, Japan's WWII conduct, or some other place where its 'original sin' lurks.

Re: manifest destiny

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2004-12-09 02:53 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] sarmoung.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-12-08 11:57 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

Date: 2004-12-09 03:18 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Sarmoung,

Agreed. Japan is indeed a fascinating nation with much to be proud of. Yes, the positive aspects far outweigh the little gripes that one might have. And it is indeed a unique environment that one can learn a lot from. This is an earnest statement.

I have no stake in trying to "lessen" Japan. (I, too, have been there and would love to visit again.) The point of the matter is the 'gaijin opinion' that Momus is alluding to above is directly pointed at the debate raging at NEOMARXISME. Marxy has simply leveled certain charges against the Japanese society. The question, and the ensuing debate, is whether they are valid or not. Unfortunately, I feel that Momus' response has been more about one's "right," or the lack their of, to make such accusations, especially when from an US citizen, than whether those original charges have validity. Yes, those charges were about journalistic collusion, acceptance of history, etc..

Anyway, that is how I read them. Judge for yourself.

"Move along, please..."
Now, shouldn't you be more inclusive, Sarmoung?

Re:

Date: 2004-12-09 04:30 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
English posts at Pop Vox do not equal Neomarxisme.

A bit selective?

Date: 2004-12-09 04:25 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Nick, I think you might have been a bit unfair in your selections of quotations from the Japanese respondants. The ones you chose I found heartening, but reading through that site myself I find others that strike me as less encouraging.

Yamaki, 24 (http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=popvox&id=530) in response to a question about the construction of a prison even exhibits some open racism, ignorance, and xenophobia, for example.

Taro Tanaka (http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=popvox&id=531) suggests a very American-style way of dealing with teachers who have gotten lazy with their Kanji.

I agree that in general, the responses are much more enlightened than you might get out of an American. But, perhaps you were a bit influenced by your preconceptions of what a typical Japanese answer would be?

(no subject)

Date: 2004-12-09 04:47 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sparkligbeatnic.livejournal.com
One of the things that is bogging progress on this discussion topic down is that there seems to be a tendency to compare Japanese apples with Western oranges and vice-versa.

Social systems which place different emphasis on Independence (e.g. American) and Inter-dependence (e.g. Japanese) each have their advantages and disadvantages. It's easy to "prove" that one is superior to the other if one focusses selectively on part of the evidence as is happening a lot in the discussion here and in Marxy's blog.

For example, today's Click Opera entry by Momus, contrasts the polite and reserved public opinions of Japanese pedestrians being interviewed by a reporter, with the flippant rantings in an anonymous online community. The contrast is amusing, but misleading, if it is intended to prove something about the superiority of one social system over another, and unfortunately it does not help Momus' credibility. It would be much more appropriate to compare these rants of the Japan Today Pop Vox commentary with some of what goes on at a site like 2ちゃねる (http://www.2ch.net/), Japan's most popular Bulletin board, which has lots of outrageous anonymous posting going on. But, or course, 2ちゃねる is all in Japanese.

Much more constructive would be a fair and balanced contrast of aspects of behaviour within different social systems. Fortunately that kind of discussion is taking place elsewhere. A worthwhile starting point is the long term collaboration between social psychologists Shinobu Kitayama (http://www.rcgd.isr.umich.edu/cpl/index.html), formerly at Kyoto University, recently moved to U. Michigan, and Hazel Markus of Stanford. In brief, Kitayama and Markus suggest that comparisons of Japanese and American psychology only make sense with the assumption of different ways of being or Selfways, to use their term.

Good starting points are this excellent interview (http://www.researchchannel.org/program/displayevent.asp?rid=859) with Hazel Markus, in which she explains her work with Kitayama on Selfways, or this popular essay (http://www.stanford.edu/dept/news/stanfordtoday/ed/9807/9807fea5.html) by Markus. To dig deeper, the blockbuster 1991 review article, Culture and the self: Implications for cognition, emotion, and motivation (http://www.rcgd.isr.umich.edu/cpl/articles/pre2000/markus_kitayama_1991.pdf) which is one of the most cited works in the social sciences from the 1990's.

How do you say "balanced" in Japanese?

Date: 2004-12-09 05:15 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Nick,

Having taken the time to read through all responses to the five questions posed by Japan Today, I find your credibility completely undercut by your careful selection and judicious editing.

Applying the same process, one could just as easily make the case for "extreme" responses by Japanese and "sane" reactions by the gaijin.

This is so poorly orchestrated that it could only be meant as provocation.

Only it's not terribly provocative, just dumb.

(no subject)

Date: 2004-12-09 06:30 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sparkligbeatnic.livejournal.com


I also spent a lot of time looking at that Exactitudes book, which I found while browsing at the Athenaeum Nieuwscentrum, when I was in Amsterdam in October.

I was, however, left with a slightly suspicious feeling about it. The pictures appear to have been taken in a studio. Why didn't the authors do this bit of urban ethnography on the streets? Is this the way the subjects normally dress, or were they dressed in a particular way for the photoshoot. In other words, did the photographers/authors overstate their case for the phenomenon extreme conformity amongst sub-cultures, by doctoring the evidence?

At the same time it's interesting to contrast the images in Exactitudes with those in street magazines like the old Fruits magazine. It seems to point to a socio-cultural paradox of greater self-expression in Interdependent societies like Japan, than Independent societies like America. If self-expression is so important in the USA, why does everyone wear jeans? Kitayama and Markus briefly touch on this paradox, but it bears more extensive investigation.

(no subject)

Date: 2004-12-09 09:49 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
I never claimed to be making an objective scientific point in this entry, and my very first comment in the Comments section admits that comparing the Pop Vox statements with the Anonymous Comments underneath is very much comparing apples and oranges. I think the 'Exactitudes' book is also being misunderstood if it's being seen as a piece of academic empiricism. It's a book in which a photographer and a stylist have constructed a provocative and polemical way of looking at 'individualism' as its opposite. They've selected and styled the 'evidence' to highlight this theme, just as I selected and styled the quotes to show the Japanese as sweet, sane and harmonious in their comments, and the gaijin as vigilante, individualistic, and confrontational. However, just because 'evidence' has been 'cooked' in a creative way doesn't mean that the general contours and behavioural templates that emerge -- think of them as 'national typological mythologies widely subscribed to and promulgated' -- are wrong or irrelevant. If the Japanese merely believe themselves to be harmonious and the Americans merely believe themselves to be vigilante individualists, that's already an important fact to note about self-perception, and one which will impact on social mores and behaviours.

It is interesting to know that people have attempted rigorous surveys of Japaneseness as a way of being, so thanks for those links, fascinating.

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] sparkligbeatnic.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-12-09 10:04 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

Date: 2004-12-09 07:04 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] valeriepique.livejournal.com
i have a question. you like japanese culture very much. do you know the language, or are you learning it?

(no subject)

Date: 2004-12-09 09:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
Back in June I explained why I don't speak Japanese (http://www.livejournal.com/users/imomus/2004/06/24/). Since then I've had a change of heart and am up to Pimsleur Lesson 20. I also tend to go around exclaiming 'Kimoi!' or 'Yabai!' or 'Hidoi!' or 'Ijiwaru!' a lot, because obviously you can't live amongst Japanese people as much as I do (significant others and living partners have been Japanese since 1997) without picking up quite a bit, ne?

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