We don't like how they make their great kids great

[imomus]

The Vice Guide to North Korea is a 14-episode account -- made at some risk to the journalists -- of a heavily-guarded journey through North Korea. I found it fascinating, but I did notice some dubious ideology creeping in, especially in Episode 12, A Schoolchildren's Palace, billed as "meeting the country's creepily over-talented future generation".



Here Shane Smith edged towards that journalistic-political cliché I call the "we don't like how they treat their women / children" school. Basically, the idea behind this move is that in any given culture, men are responsible for the ideology, and women and children are helpless victims and hostages. The implication is that, although the men are a lost cause, the women and children could be captured and brought to some other culture, where they'd be much happier.

This "much happier", in Smith's account of North Korean children, involves being a lot less motivated and talented. "One of the most fun-slash-sad times," Smith says in Episode 12, "was to see the best-of-the-best school in Pyongyang." After showing some child prodigies playing musical instruments larger than themselves, Smith decides that "it's so sad because these great kids are learning and learning for the state". But what's wrong with learning -- to exceptionally high standards -- for the state, and at the expense of the state? Are these children really to be pitied? Mightn't they be -- as well as "great kids" -- fervently ideological admirers of Kim Jong Il, believers in North Korea's superiority over South Korea, and convinced that their "creepy talents" could only have been advanced so far in the particular system they were born into?



And mightn't the show they're preparing for -- a show in a land of shows, some of the most spectacular in the world -- be the intense focus of their lives, and a source of enormous pride for them?

I'm certainly not claiming the North Korean system isn't deeply problematical, but I wonder why we insist on the universal innocence of women and children when we look at cultures which are very different from our own? And I wonder whether the implied transferability of these women and children to our own system (where they'd be "healthy and free", of course) isn't a relic of the unpleasant imperial practices of rape, pillage and plunder: the strategy of killing all the men in a conquered zone and capturing all the women and children.

Comments

Show

[(Anonymous)]

I missed your show in Berlin. Will there be another one during the next weeks?

Best, Thomas (ThomaGross@aol.com)

Re: Show

[imomus.livejournal.com]

Hi Thomas, the answer is no, that was my only Berlin show for a while!

[(Anonymous)]

There's something rather inevitable about this entry. If you'd been blogging in the 1930s, no doubt you'd be talking about the intense focus and source of pride that Hitler Youth had in their spectacular shows - a show in a land of shows, some of the most spectacular in the world.

And I don't really think we assume greater 'innocence' of the children of foreign cultures. We do this just as much with our own children too, in these times of paedophile paranoia.

[mcgazz.livejournal.com]

That's an enormous Godwin. Apart from the fact that North Korea is unlikely to invade anywhere or commit genocide, I don't think the Hitler Youth played that big a part in the Holocaust - comparing the two is like blaming today's US school children saluting the Stars & Stripes for the rape, torture and murder of Iraqis.

[(Anonymous)]

Why need blogging not of your business... you have too much time with no job to do so blogging but you are too old now so what is point? You have no pride for family but your mother and father must be so disappointed to have useless son with pretend Chinese wife.

[(Anonymous)]

Momus,

Remember when that guy did a spoof click opera entry. He used the pink and orange background. Do you still have the link to that? It was pretty well done.

re: Korea / West Germany

[psalamone.livejournal.com]

Thanks, I'll check out the video over my work day.

Great show at West Germany last night, by the way, I could definitely see what you meant about bringing more theatricality to rock performance. As an improv comiker myself, I found your poses and gestures, dances and mimetics very entertaining.. and the tunes were good too!!

[(Anonymous)]

A remarkably silly post even by your high standards in the matter, Momus. Rote-learning mechanised movements on a parade ground seems a pretty reductive view of education. You ask why we should pity the children, but I might just as well ask why I should believe in your joyful scenario of happy kids taking enormous pride in their work, leader and country. One thing we know about totalitarian regimes is their use of force and repression in the service of ideology - there's no reason at all to imagine this doesn't pervade the education system as well.

Momus, I know your enemy's enemy is your friend and all that, but isn't this taking things a little far?

[(Anonymous)]

> One thing we know about totalitarian regimes is their use of force and repression in the service of ideology - there's no reason at all to imagine this doesn't pervade the education system as well.

Lucky you to be educated in an ideology-free environment.

[(Anonymous)]

Hm, I didn't like his tone either. I know a lot of small children who'd be overjoyed to get that kind of state-sponsored education, including my little niece, whose disabled mother works two jobs to be able to afford to indulge her tap-and-ballet obsession. None of those kids looked very coerced to me. Then again, maybe Kim Jong-Il uses invisible stealth whips. Faster, tiny dancers, faster!

[(Anonymous)]

Um, the school shown is the "best-of-the-best", a Potemkin showcase that even foreigners are allowed to visit. Therefore, I'm sure that it is absolutely typical of the education that all North Korean children are offered everywhere across the country...

No Credit Crunch for Kim Jong Il

[(Anonymous)]

Half of London is being made redundant right now, but this sales pitch from the DPR Korea sounds idyllic.

Let's go!

--

The DPR of Korea (North Korea) will become in the next years the most important hub for trading in North-East Asia.

Lowest labour cost in Asia.

Highly qualified, loyal and motivated personnel. Education, housing and health service is provided free to all citizens. As opposed to other Asian countries, worker's will not abandon their positions for higher salaries once they are trained.

Lowest taxes scheme in Asia. Especially for high-tech factories. Typical tax exemption for the first two years.

No middle agents. All business made directly with the government, state-owned companies. No middle agents.

Stable. A government with solid security and very stable political system, without corruption.

Full diplomatic relations with most EU members and rest of countries.

New market. Many areas of business and exclusive distribution of products (sole-distribution).

Transparant legal work. Legal procedures, intellectual rights, patents and warranties for investors settled.

[akabe.livejournal.com]

podium ! (as they say when bikesnobnyc writes a good essay) great points!

[(Anonymous)]

A lot of anonymous comments today.

[(Anonymous)]

Most of the "regulars" are all too familiar with Momus' posts, and don't feel compelled to leave comments anymore. And it doesn't appear that Livejournal is replacing those old folks with new blood.

Momus has over-saturated the market by provided us with 350 essays a year. Fatigue is bound to set in. But it also gets to be an addiction. If there's no Momus post in the morning then the day feels somehow incomplete.

[(Anonymous)]

We imagine that our identities are “natural.” We imagine that “freedom” allows us to naturally develop into “who we are.” But 200 years ago, none of us could have developed into skateboarders, film editors, fans of American Idol, and lovers of Sunkist and chicken nuggets. We are shaped, beyond our own control, by our environment. We do not become reflective, independent people until age 20 or so. And some never really even get there. So what matters if a few adults “mold” children with their “ideological agenda”? What’s the difference? It is impossible for anyone to develop “naturally.” Freedom is an ideological agenda. A free country is probably going to be one that places a high value on progress and material wealth. Even if one chooses to live a “post-material” lifestyle, one still has to live among all the signs of modernity—cars, designer t-shirts, television, rap music, etc.

[kementari2.livejournal.com]

I can see how the fact that such a poor country can provide advanced opportunities for (the most able of) its children is positive and impressive. No doubt many of these children enjoy their strict but inspiring experiences excelling as a part of something larger and beautiful. I also think it's likely that patriotism adds pride to their dedication.

However, I'll never look at totalitarian state-inspired youth programs the same after having watched a documentary on the secretive doping of hundreds of East German athletes. Boys and girls alike were given massive amounts of testosterone without their knowledge or consent. One of the boys in the program suffered a fatal heart attack because of this. After facing years of prejudice for her severely altered appearance, one woman underwent a sex-change operation. Another committed suicide. Most of the athletes now suffer from heart problems, hormone imbalances, and chronic joint pain.

[(Anonymous)]

> Boys and girls alike were given massive amounts of testosterone without their knowledge or consent.

The western system of goading people into taking drugs and then publicly humiliating them when they're caught is much better. After all, you only *really* oppress someone when you make them do it to themselves (and it allows you to escape any blame. All choices are voluntary, after all - right, commuters?)

[peachweeks.livejournal.com]

I've just watched the entire documentary all the way through. What an ignorant, disrespectful, arrogant man the main narrator is. Having said that, his total inability to understand that there are value systems different from his own or in fact that his value system is just that, a system, is almost more painful.(Not that I'm in any way a supporter of the regime in NK). He is eye-stretchingly ignorant, rude and imperious, the man simply cannot think or analyse. I'm genuinely shocked and ashamed by his behaviour. What an immense waste of an amazing opportunity by a lazy, complacent, ignoramus.

[digitalheir.livejournal.com]

Can you please make grounds for these words? The only thing I heard him say was: "This must be crazy land", and I can imagine someone saying that if he is confronted with such a culture unlike his own. How could he behave like an idiot if he knew the guards would probably should him if he did? Do you think it was immoral for him to bring a camera with him? To act like a journalist even though he promised to act like a tourist?

[fishwithissues.livejournal.com]

i watched the whole thing. it is great work. i'm excited about internet documentary.

i can't stop running the "anarchy in the nk" ending through my mind. it's just a perfect ending, almost like scripted action!

here's mark ames doing something similar (same song even) in russia:

[janglyjan.livejournal.com]

Momus, I agree with your thoughts. However, it's from Vice, what did you expect? The majority of their travel videos seem to have a "look at the freaks" attitude.

Macho, swaggering, wacky, fun, dumb

[(Anonymous)]

It's ironic that if a state as apparently well-regimented as PDR Korea adopted capitalism they’d wipe the floor with an easy-going, follow-your-dreams, somewhat haphazard West. Or perhaps we need Id-orientated macho, swaggering, wackiness and dumbness to illuminate the capitalist path ahead.

[(Anonymous)]

lmao i dont know anything about the subject matter but just seeing fat bearded american guy exaggerating his emotions makes me think of another indoctrination, a self-imposed one. psychological hint. a problem u see in others is yr own problem with yrself, clean before yr own door etc.

[(from livejournal.com)]

It's interesting to compare this with a recent article (http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/atlarge/2008/07/07/080707crat_atlarge_ross?currentPage=all) in the New Yorker about classical music in China.

This article notes that children studying classical music may be happier in China since, "An American high-school student who practices piano several hours a day is apt to be pegged something of a freak; in China, such a routine is commonplace." Moreover, we are told, "Western musicians, administrators, and critics who visit China have lately come away murmuring observations along the lines of 'classical music is exploding' and 'the future of classical music lies in China.'" If you replace "classical music" with the activities these North Koreans have been undertaking, these remarks seem just as applicable. Yet, as you observe, Momus, we have yet to see a similar New Yorker article praising these studies that are less acceptable in our culture.

[cerulicante.livejournal.com]

In most Asian countries, love and affection from parents is completely dependent on success level in academic, musical and career areas.

If the only way you ever got love as a kid was to practice the piano 5 hours a day, you'd practice 5 hours a day, 7 days a week and think it was normal.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't have an account, so I'm anonymous, sorry.

While I don't think the film is so extreme in it's imperious representation of NK that it's quite the best example of what Momus is getting at, I agree with concern that these people (the women and children, as well as the NK men) are victims of a dehumanizing and totalizing view that they are something quintessentially 'other' than us. I think it's a dangerous position when we are willing to condemn a country and it's people for being what we don't agree with. I see Momus's sentiments as an attempt at recognizing and keeping these people human, and not doing what the narrator begins to do and turn them into symbols of his moral greatness.

-Justin Martin

[(Anonymous)]

NK on Excess Baggage last Saturday: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/excessbaggage/

-

[(Anonymous)]

Well, now that the dust has settled and passions have died down, wise old Leon comes into to lay down the long-bearded truth of dialectical synthesis; eat that, Hegel.

Right. Momus. Why "Save the Children!", "Think of the Children!", "Won't somebody please think of the Children?!", you ask? (there's even a bloody wikipedia page on the subject... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_of_the_children)
Well, it's quite simply because the hegemonic liberal democratic consensus in the West lies firmly on the shoulders of these selfsame children. By this generalised and grandiloquent statement I mean that we are supposed to believe that everyone is born equal and with a blank slate and are subsequently corrupted by ideologies. This is an essential plank of the boat of Western liberalism; without it, it we couldn't assert the fact that our values are universal, and the only reason other cultures don't believe in them is because they were innocent as children but were subsequently corrupted. We can't say they were born that way, cus that wouldn't be liberal, and we can't accept what they've chosen since their innocent birth, because they haven't voted Liberal.

So, basically, if 15th Century colonial Spain were to criticise North Korea, it wouldn't do so with regards to how it treats its children, because it, as a culture, didn't have any vested ideological interest in safeguarding the sanctity of children. But we do. If children aren't sacred and pure, then.

And that really isn't so bad, after all. I quite like the critters, and I'm nothing if not agush with love of freedom and justice and other post-Enlightenment intellectual leftovers. Boo for North Korea. But still, Western cultural critics do often piss me off.

- Leon.

[(Anonymous)]

There's a quotation by George Orwell which I wasn't able to find which says something like people who write utopias often assume that what we need to be happy is all of our necessities taken care of and tons of leisure time. When another need we also have is to march together as part of a giant organism, to feel our hearts swelling with pride when we look at a flag, and the opportunity to make sacrifices and even die for our group. In the transition from a North Korea-like society to a western society, a person could gain more freedom over their life, but feel the profound loss of that kind of collectivist thrilling joy.

disbelief

[(Anonymous)]

Look, when we talk about North Korea we're talking about a government that panders to its elite and lets the people starve. Everything has a benevolent aspect I suppose but I would hope that people would look at North Korea as a whole instead of its ability to train some amazingly talented kids to do tricks at their command.

rob t.

killing all the men in a conquered zone and capturing all the women and children.

[audiodregs.livejournal.com]

i'd argue that its this "kill the men save the women" attitude is biological.

http://www.howardbloom.net/chimpanzees_and_romans.htm

Re: killing all the men in a conquered zone and capturing all the women and children.

[imomus.livejournal.com]

Sure, but it would be a mistake to make some kind of determinism out of Bloom's "paleopsychology". This stuff is imprinted in our genes, but culture is partly about overriding that stuff. Culture is "neopsychology".