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[personal profile] imomus
I want to take the thoughts in yesterday's entry somewhat further today, because I didn't really answer the question I set myself. Today's entry will become something of a defiant manifesto. The defiance will be directed to right-wing populists and the internet spooks who boost them, and to people who think that leftism -- along with bourgeois progressivism -- perished in 1989 with the collapse of the Soviet Union. I'll argue that the leftist agenda is still at the heart of the progressive intelligentsia all over the West, and that it survives not in little guerilla groups hiding in the forest, but in some of our most prestigious institutions: universities, the media, art institutes. Precisely the kind of art institutions, in fact, which would be most likely to celebrate the career of an artist like Liam Gillick.



Because this description of institutions with a progressivist bias can so easily mirror right wing paranoia, it might be instructive to start with exactly that. Have a look at What is the loneliest job in Britain? Being a Tory at the BBC, an article by Tory-at-the-BBC Robin Aitken which accuses the BBC of being hostile to Margaret Thatcher, of championing a progressive agenda, of lamenting the closure of shipyards and fretting about ailing steelworks, of deploring government spending cuts and declaring privatisation doomed, of devoting itself to the European ideal, of questioning the rationale that led Tony Blair to commit British troops to the Iraq War, of sacking anti-Muslim chat show host Robert Kilroy-Silk when he attacked muslims, and of obsessing about the human rights of detainees at Guantanamo Bay. For Aitken, this makes the BBC a bad institution, one where "everything is seen through the distorting prism of the progressive agenda". My reaction -- as someone who thinks the BBC entirely justifies its existence when it makes one Adam Curtis possible -- is that I only wish this picture were more true, and that the BBC were more institutionally biased in the direction of the progressive.



The reason Aitken's "bias" argument rings so hollow is that the few progressive institutions that do exist are more than balanced by the enormous and constant pressure pushing society in the other direction -- pressure coming from turbocapitalism itself, from a political sector in which progressivist parties (like Britain's Labour Party) have rolled over submissively to turbocapitalism, and from a reactionary mainstream media controlled by the likes of Rupert Murdoch. There's also, of course, outright war and covert operations against leftism, from the Vietnam war to the covert operations Liam Gillick mentions in the lecture I linked yesterday: the CIA's manipulation of the 1948 Italian general election to prevent the communists from winning.

Anyone who wonders how something like a publicly-funded art institute could challenge this kind of activity should also wonder why the CIA channeled millions of dollars into cultural struggle in the post-war period, trying to establish American Abstract Expressionism as the dominant artform of the period rather than the work of leftist Europeans.

Where do we see this sort of progressivism in Liam Gillick's work? Freeze frame the Vernissage TV coverage of Gillick's show at the Kunsthalle Zurich and you'll see a big wall panel of gridded text relating the attempts of a factory to self-organize, and how, despite (or precisely because of) the success of this experiment into working non-capitalist modes of production, the workers were shut down. (Gillick talks more about this in the third video on the Palais de Tokyo's video page about his 2005 show there.)

But art also has formal ways of investigating this sort of thing: Gillick's work is fascinated, formally, by the way Apollonian and didactic structures (from the Ulm School to Mondrian) can be used by autonomous groups to discipline their own activity and make it productive. It's a politically progressivist version of Donald Judd's acres of anal shelfage, you might say ("an embracing of formalism plus a critique or rejection of it at the same time" is Gillick's own description). Much of the stuff in the co-ordinated Gillick shows at Kunsthalle Zürich, Witte de With in Rotterdam, Kunstverein Munich and the Museum of Contemporary Art in Chicago looks like empty bookshelves -- a reference not just to Judd but to an intellectual void, perhaps; a need for books and thought and ideas which is then partly answered by the tables of books Gillick supplies later in the show. In all four shows, he's "gifted" 50% of his allotted space back to the museums to fill as they please. And that, perhaps, is an acknowledgment of his common cause with these progressivist institutions.

We've seen before on Click Opera how a British Army brainstorming exercise predicted that rising levels of inequality and injustice would make the return of revolutionary communism likely later this century. "The middle classes could become a revolutionary class", predicted Rear Admiral Chris Parry of the Ministry of Defense's Development, Concepts and Doctrine Centre. Again, I think right wing paranoia might contain a chunk of truth about the progressive bourgeois class. The place to look for glimmers of this future right now is in the whisperings of the art exhibited in progressive institutions, the Kunstvereins for whom art is more than a mere commodity on the market, and that sector of the educated bourgeois class for whom being bourgeois is about more than simply being comfortable and advantaged; it's about spearheading progress towards a more just and principled world.

anon speak for the day

Date: 2008-02-10 11:04 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] microworlds.livejournal.com
Today I say Momus no lazybarnes. OH Mr Momus he know a LOT.

Re: anon speak for the day

Date: 2008-02-10 11:15 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] microworlds.livejournal.com
Getting that out of the way:

it's about spearheading progress towards a more just and principled world.

Interesting that you say this, because when I was reading one of my guilty pleasures, CosmoGirl magazine, the editor said that there's a new trend in "giving back". So throughout the magazine's articles, the magazine was promoting giving back to the environment, and working against social injustices, etc. more than usual.

Hmmm, I'm quite amused at the thought of you reading CosmoGirl and analyzing their use of diversity with choices of models. I can imagine you reading it with a monocle on and yelling "BLASPHEMY!" at every turn of the page.

Re: anon speak for the day

Date: 2008-02-10 11:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
Eco themes, organic themes, Fair Trade themes, an emphasis on education and on "giving back", they could all be seen as ineffectual tokenism ("symbolic reparation") or an important part of a return to progressive values. I'd prefer to see them as the latter -- the inevitable pendulum movement which will bring a Democratic president to power in the US later this year. Of course, your Democrats are somewhat to the right of our Christian Democrats here in Europe, but that's another matter.

Re: anon speak for the day

Date: 2008-02-10 10:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] microworlds.livejournal.com
Should I send you my issue of CosmoGirl for you to judge? There's a fashion spread in there that you might be interested in.

Re: anon speak for the day

Date: 2008-02-10 11:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] saint-claws.livejournal.com
You should do your own low culture version of imomus and write about CosmoGirl and the social memes of clothes shopping in K Mart. I'll troll the comments and make sexual passes at you.

Re: anon speak for the day

Date: 2008-02-11 12:06 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] microworlds.livejournal.com
Hahahaha I should write in netspeak and the fruity, fluffy way the journalists speak in CosmoGirl! "The fabulous imomus and I were having a conversation about shopping and it totally got me thinking! Why not campaign for Uganda in K Mart? We could all dress up in green and brown and yell to the customers SAVE UGANDA! It will totally be a fashion statement. Thanks for the idea, imomus! You are awarded the Microworlds seal of achievement!"

LOL oh God there's no netspeak in there but w/e! Go ahead and make sexual passes at me, I don't mind!

Re: anon speak for the day

Date: 2008-02-10 11:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] saint-claws.livejournal.com
WAIT WHO AM I KIDDING I ALWAYS MAKE SEXUAL PASSES AT YOU!

Re: anon speak for the day

Date: 2008-02-11 12:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] microworlds.livejournal.com
YEAH I KNOW AND IT MAKES ME FEEL ALL SPECIAL INSIDE! THAT SHOULD BE MY NEXT ARTICLE! I'LL WRITE IT LIKE MOMUS WROTE ABOUT MOMUS_LOLZ.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-02-10 12:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jenny-junkie.livejournal.com
the word *progress* leaves me a little uneasy. It's been used more as a fallacy for production oriented notions rather than leftist and equalitarian ideas. Maybe it's because the Left has been compromised as well to serve the unending cycle of over-production and work and the obcession over technological development. Even ecologically aware policies tend to serve consumption and waste: recycled/recyclable products still require the use of fossil fuels during processing, etc.
I guess this sort of relates to your previous discussions on post-materialism.
But I hope you're right and art will save us all.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-02-10 12:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
I know where you're coming from, but there's a danger of saying something like "because we consume material things, it would be hypocritical to talk about post-materialism" or "because eco consumers are still consumers, there's no point in being an eco consumer". Those sorts of arguments obviously throw the baby out with the bathwater; it's better to be an eco-consumer than a human locust, just as it's better to be an artist making leftist noises in a market system rather than one who just rolls over and makes investment-friendly colour-coordinated stripe paintings for the bedroom walls of the affluent. A little ethics is better than none at all, even if ethics coming from someone with an ambivalent or impure position seems to annoy the hell out of some people and make them want to tear the saint down. That's a reactionary reaction I think we need to get over. Yes, things are morally complex. Yes, people are inconsistent. No, that doesn't mean we should abandon attempts to act and live more ethically, or that everyone who tries to do that is a "hypocrite".

(no subject)

Date: 2008-02-10 02:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thomascott.livejournal.com
Whilst I appreciate your point regarding public cynicism in that last comment, sometimes certain self-appointed 'saints' do need to be up-ended from their pedestals, particularly when they have constructed for themselves an iconic, unquestioned public persona and expressly so when the message they are conveying is so pernicious.
Bono being a prime example, his philosophy of 'mud huts for the Third World, multi-million euro, tax-free, off-shore business empires for us' needs to be skewered.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-02-10 02:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
I think that, although Bono is annoying, he would be even more so if he hadn't played a major role in dismissing onerous and unjust third world debt. Seriously, we can't prefer the parallel world where Bono only warbles and gets rich. We have to salute his humanitarian achievements. He really has done more good than most of us ever will, hugely galling though that may be for us personally.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-02-10 02:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thomascott.livejournal.com
You know, that is a fair point.
It is just so irksome that it had to be him!

(no subject)

Date: 2008-02-10 02:14 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Admittedly, not knowing a great deal about Gillicks' work I find it to be rather, well, retrospective in its nature. Mondrian and all the masculine greats of American minimalism immediately spring to mind as does the Factory Records covers of the '80s. Is that really progressive? There is nothing wrong with affluence in itself but I wouldn't really think of Gillick as being particularly opposed to this, after all he exhibits in White Cube which is hardly known for its affordable artworks. Perhaps Brian Eno and his 77 Million Paintings could be seen as being more progressive. It was exhibited in London at least, on the bottom floor of Selfridges and provided a comfortable space for viewers to sit and watch the patterns and colours unfold. It was also available on DVD online. I guess if we measure 'progressiveness' by methods of distribution and technology this could be the seen to be the case. 2c.

Lindsay

I guess I'm more a fan of Fiona Rae than Gillick.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-02-10 02:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jenny-junkie.livejournal.com
No, and I agree with you. I'm not living in a cave with an internet connection. All I was trying to point out is that this talk about progress can serve the exact opposite intention (I mean, just look at what cost China has progressed), and *eco-consumer* can quickly become an expression as abused as *alternative music*.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-02-10 02:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thomascott.livejournal.com
You have knitted together an interesting swatch from previous posts and themes. That post from December 2006 concerning the CIA's championing of the neutral, solipsistic, introspective art aesthetic of abstract expressionism I remember as being one of your best from around that time.
Do you really think however that such covert operations against leftism are really the concern of the spooks anymore.
It all now seems to be stuff from another age..

(no subject)

Date: 2008-02-10 02:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thomascott.livejournal.com
Above criticism of abstract expressionism is quite Pollack-specific.
I'm afraid I don't rate him very highly, a lot of his art would look good in the CEO's office - as long as the piece in consideration matched the hues in the furniture and the fabrics.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-02-10 02:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
Do you really think however that such covert operations against leftism are really the concern of the spooks anymore.
It all now seems to be stuff from another age..


As I said at the end of that CIA piece, "the CIA renounced its role as a patron of the arts only when the Vietnam war polarized politics, breaking up the middle ground and shattering the illusion that something as indirect as art could foment gentle, benign political swings".

(no subject)

Date: 2008-02-10 03:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thomascott.livejournal.com
Yes, I took that in and I should have indicated that what I was seeking to imply was more comprehensive, namely that the CIA's former obsession with 'keeping the left at bay' now seems to have been largely superseded by it's fixation with Islamic fundamentalism.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-02-10 03:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
Oh, they're up to their usual tricks against leftists wherever they may be -- mostly, these days, in South America (http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=NIM20051120&articleId=1296).

(no subject)

Date: 2008-02-10 05:57 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
ok, as you wish -- being the lone american here, I'll devil's advocate.

maybe your hatred of America stems from some unresolved oedipal issues? The little golden-haired "frank tiger" overjoyed at the attention (and quasi sexual tension), when he corrects his mother's fashion, and secretly jealous when she leaves with the "father" figure? Here is the genesis of your life long hatred of the patriarchy?

This is why you choose Japan and Germany as your home states -- countries with a long and glorious history of torturing and slaughtering american boys by the thousands.

Haven't you conveniently turned your blind eye to the failures and atrocities of the left? The re-education camps? The famines? The blood soaked despots?

What kind of art did the Stasi promote?

(that said... yay Obama!)

What is progressive? "Forward to basics"

Date: 2008-02-10 05:26 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Obviously atheism was around long before religion and will outlast the fads. Wouldn’t Active Atheism be an interesting mission statement for the BBC?

“Just as the gears of society have been set to help smokers get free from cigarettes, so the BBC wishes to help the religious break from succour in beliefs that are fear-based, neurotic, domestic, hierarchical and, in this day and age, a little creepy. Are we anti-Islam? You betchya. Are we anti-Judaism? Bring it on. Are we anti-Christian? Mormon? Scientology and David Icke? All of the above and much much more!”



(no subject)

Date: 2008-02-10 07:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] desant012.livejournal.com
In the US, where inequality is probably at its worst in the first world, you can see more and more people striking and organizing again. 80% of the economy is in service (aka, working in a McDonalds), and even the creative trades in the cities are slowly being eliminated. Right now is when progressivism should be at its strongest in art (art of course including music, writing, etc., as well as visual).

It'd be nice to see more progressive art around here, but you have to be honest, a lot of it is tied to or made for the sake of this """turbocapitalism"""""". I don't think art can truly be progressive unless it completely severs itself from the machinery that's creating this inequality.

It's like somebody writing a tut-tut article in one of Murdoch's billion newspapers ... it's nominal rebellion. When it comes to law, working from within can produce effective results, but in art where you're supposed to push buttons and shift the debate, can that happen when the creative world is on the dole of the turbocapitalists?

Artists can't make statements when they belong to the market system--when they say they can, they aren't committed to change, honestly. It's like counter-insurgency... when you bring the opposition into the system, no matter what they say is automatically compromised. "You say you hate this gluttony of financial excess that's cerating inequality... yet who's paying your bills?" Bam, the artist's statement is reduced to dust.

Yes, working to make a difference puts you to eating ramen noodles. It's incompatible with living in a loft in Paris, just like doing public interest law is incompatible with owning an apartment on Central Park West. It's a sacrifice many people, including artists, are unwilling to make, and it's completely and utterly understandable that they do it ... just don't make excuses for it.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-02-10 07:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lord-whimsy.livejournal.com
...not to mention that the preening crypto-totalitarian pricks on the left have just as much blood on their hands as those bastards on the right. Big fat middle fingers to them both. The only guy I trust is the one who isn't in it for some self-serving ideal, but just wants to make a living for his family. But then, I'm a "right-leaning populist"--albeit a right-leaning populist who can look my waiter in the eye, mind you, because I've worked the same shit jobs.

those bastards

Date: 2008-02-11 02:46 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pay-option07.livejournal.com
How is libertarianism doing in your neck of the woods. Local governments are to timid to support the arts because of the political voice it provides to oppose their bases of power.
Bono doesn't follow this practice.If He was more like John Berger he wouldn't get a penny.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-02-10 08:35 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
"Artists can't make statements when they belong to the market system." Selling something you create (even its overt politics) is pretty low-key, risky, hands-off compared to running hedge funds, no? That’s like seeing money sourcing as all the same simply because the token of exchange is the same; or the same root in human motivation, when for most non-Wall Streeters it’s rent, food and bills. Otherwise you get into a circle where being laid off is somehow good for a creative person. Or, since we’re all connected to this machine, that producing nothing is the only statement left. (If that is the case, I’ve had a radical five years..) :)

(no subject)

Date: 2008-02-11 04:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] akabe.livejournal.com
yes i'm inclinded to think that way too and to start with it's about a 'cool' to be an artist nowadays as it would have been to be a state-aproved social-realist painter in stalin's soviet union but just as then it doesn't mean there's no gap for subversion and hidden messages - and i think this was in a way part of momus' point.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-02-10 10:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cap-scaleman.livejournal.com
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_Is_Beautiful

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limits_to_Growth

(no subject)

Date: 2008-02-11 05:44 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
I actually read "Small is Beautiful" when I was at school!
From: [identity profile] pay-option07.livejournal.com
If you examine peoples in melting pot democracies that are disadvantaged minorities that gain bourgeois class status they immediately dis-own their ancestry and progress towards a more just and principled world.

Just saw "Pie in the Sky" 2000 about Brigid Berlin a Andy Warhol factory girl. Check it out!

(no subject)

Date: 2008-02-11 02:02 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kumakouji.livejournal.com
Your idea of progressive isn't, to my mind, that progressive. Your politics, your preference for modernism in art; they're very old. decades old.

In that archived journal entry you linked to, you say "We're all sick of postmodernism, yet we know that there are really only two ways out of it: fundamentalist Islam and communism."
This to me, sums up entirely the problem I have with your outlook.

You really don't seem to understand post-modernism. You seem to see it as this step on the progressive ladder, when in reality postmodern has separated itself from all linear systems. Where modernism says "This is the way forward!", postmodernism says "its all relative and subjective", which is all encompassing. For you to be sick of post-modernism means you want to go back to the old ways of modernism; the quest for "progress". Thats regressive.

As for Communism; you can condemn "hyper-capitalism", but Communism has been just as bad -- millions slaughtered, liberties eroded, democracy halted, utter political corruption, starvation, poverty. When we compare communism in practice to capitalism in practice, You have no reason to believe communism would be any better than capitalism. Not to mention europe isnt even "capitalist", it's more correct to define it as a mixed economy.
"but wait! Those communist states weren't run by real Communists! It wasn't true Communism!" I hear every pro-communist shout. Then I argue that all the problems of mixed economy capitalism can also be solved by tweaking the politics and changing people's perspectives. it works both ways.

There are many other reasons why I disagree with communism as a system and believe it will never work in practice, but that's digressing. The next point I wanna make regards your hypocrisy and your justifications for it. I'm talking about the fact you claim to be pro-communist whilst reveling in capitalism, indulging in expensive consumerism, enjoying capitalist capital cities.

You make the argument that "A little ethics is better than none at all", which is fine and dandy, except your own actions directly contradict your own supposed ethics which to my mind is slightly different. Bono might be a tax evader, but he's never stood there and said "tax evasion is utterly wrong and abhorant". You however, you still claim to be pro-communist even though you consume well over your minimal needs. like ive said, theres nothing stopping you from practicing communism on a personal level -- to each what he needs, from each what they can provide. Thats what you think is right, correct? Then Why aren't you practicing this? You don't need overpriced ipods and imacs. you dont need fashionable clothes. you dont need plane trips around the world to design conferences. you can't claim to be vegetarian whilst eating meat and buying burgers -- "I want the whole world to be vegetarian but in the meantime I'll eat meat til it happens" -- thats the problem I have with your perspective.

Make no mistake; this isnt a case of "a little is better than none" this is about you being thoroughly disingenuous.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-02-11 06:01 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] akabe.livejournal.com
you love the good old arguement , don't you?

you talking about post-modernism makes it sound as fresh as if it was 1989 or something - havn't seen anyone this enthusiastic about post-modernism since ,, probably Momus cca 2 years ago when talking about japan.

"its all relative and subjective", - now that would be one of the better ways to define define 'modernism' , especially in the arts from Ulysses and late Mahler all the way to quite recently.

you seem to hold some mind-blowingly naive ideas when it comes to,, let me recall,, the english language, white people , western freedom etc

(no subject)

Date: 2008-02-11 01:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kumakouji.livejournal.com
Post modernism isn't fresh, but that's not the point. It brings into scrutiny all systems of meaning, transgressing the idea of progress. That's the point.

"its all relative and subjective", - now that would be one of the better ways to define define 'modernism' , especially in the arts from Ulysses and late Mahler all the way to quite recently."

Relativism might be themes in the artwork of artists classed as modernist, but relativism isn't part of the Modernist view on progress:

"Modernism encouraged the re-examination of every aspect of existence, from commerce to philosophy, with the goal of finding that which was 'holding back' progress, and replacing it with new, progressive and therefore better, ways of reaching the same end."

Sounds remarkably like what Momus is arguing for.

"you seem to hold some mind-blowingly naive ideas when it comes to,, let me recall,, the english language, white people , western freedom etc"

I don't prescribe to the idea that the only reason models with "white features" are chosen is because of western fiscal dominance and neo-con fashion editors trying to promote genetically perfect examples of the aryan race.

I dont prescribe to the idea that the spread of English is purely an evil destroying lingual diversity.

I'm not a reactionary far left supporter who's politics are defined by railing against whatever happens to be the status quo like some kind of rebellious teenager. I'm a left leaning centrist.



(no subject)

Date: 2008-02-11 02:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] akabe.livejournal.com
i had what you recently said about the rich vocabulary of the english language fresh in my mind the other day as i was lamenting the fact that there is no word for the day after the-day-after-tomorrow in english.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-02-11 02:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kumakouji.livejournal.com
One example of a word English lacks doesn't provide proof that English lacks a rich vocabulary.

The English language has one of the largest vocabularies in the world; it contains about 500000 words and another 300000 technical terms. You can't argue with this, it's fact, not opinion.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-02-11 04:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] akabe.livejournal.com
it also lacks different words for hot and cold water like they have in japanese.

no, seriously english does lack lots compared to any other language i know, mostly when it comes to nuance. it's great for getting to the point.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-02-11 06:01 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
I think I understand PoMo all too well. I can see its limitations and its conservatism. It's by no means a final destination for mankind, as you seem to be suggesting, some kind of cultural "end of history". There is a "thing that comes after post-modernism", and if you can see Europe as a mixed economy, why couldn't you also see that "next thing" as a mixture of the progressivist values of Modernism with some of the more positive elements of PoMo? I think this is exactly what we're seeing happen; there's a return to seriousness of purpose.

You should also be able to apply the idea of a mixed economy to mixed motives -- in other words, what you're calling "hypocrisy". Mixed motives are, like a mixed economy, a virtue -- a sign that a needed dialogue is going on between principles which can interlock and correct each other's deficiencies. Talk of "hypocrisy" stops this dialogue dead in its tracks.

As for your asceticism point, I do live much more ascetically than the huge majority of people in the West -- I have a lower-than-average income, lower-than-average debt, and so on. But yes, it's mixed, because I probably travel more than I should from an eco-viewpoint.

The phrase "there's nothing stopping you from practicing communism on a personal level" is remarkably foolish, and gave me a good old chuckle. In fact, it would make a funny song or a Monty Python-type sketch, a bit like "Hitler in Gateshead".

Palin and Idle dressed up as women: (Gossiping over garden fence): Oh, look, there's that Mr Stalin again. He's been living alone since his wife died, you know. Does nothing but practice communism in his living room. Well, as long as he keeps it to the privacy of his own home, I say... He can be as equal as the day is long, as long as it's just to himself!

(no subject)

Date: 2008-02-11 02:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] akabe.livejournal.com
now that's funny!

(no subject)

Date: 2008-02-11 04:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] akabe.livejournal.com
> because I probably travel more than I should from an eco-viewpoint.

you should bike, even long and very long distances. if you keep a certain reasonable speed you'd most likely be going faster than a train or an automobile of the early modern era of progress. you would then become the living fusion of the purest modernist idea of progress and post-industrial/modern eco-awareness and all.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-02-12 02:30 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] eclectiktronik.livejournal.com
hey-ho, kuma once more blithely spews forth another anticommunist rant...someone pass the popcorn...

(no subject)

Date: 2008-02-11 02:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kumakouji.livejournal.com
I can see post modernism's limitations

Post-modernism has no limits, it's all encompassing. Reality is infinitely complex, and our interpretations of it are dogged by subjectivity, which clouds truth.

"modernism" (in the sense that man will always strive to make "better") will always exist, but that doesnt change the fact "better" isn't a universally definable quality; "seriousness of purpose" isnt a definable quality, just a subjective opinion. Thus, the infallibility of pomo and the reason why it will always endure.

Post modernism isnt the end of cultural history, it's calling for a re-examination of values -- values that have long been questioned in ancient eastern philosophies to modern quantum mechanics. I don't believe you do understand what post-modernism actually stands for.

You should also be able to apply the idea of a mixed economy to mixed motives -- in other words, what you're calling "hypocrisy". Mixed motives are, like a mixed economy, a virtue -- a sign that a needed dialogue is going on between principles which can interlock and correct each other's deficiencies. Talk of "hypocrisy" stops this dialogue dead in its tracks.

your binary of communism = good, capitalism = bad (mixed motives conflicting) is over-simplfying the issue and showing your lack of understanding.

Mixed economies arent hypocritical, they're a co-dependant balancing act between personal freedom and communal sharing - when they're balanced effectively they benefit each other.

A basic example, the national health system -- it ensures that everyone in society can afford to be healthy. This is turn helps the economy. Reducing poverty also reduces crime which reduces policing costs. providing support for the vulnerable benefits the country as a whole, it's also a personal safety net. its not a selfless act of charity.

of course, the national healthcare system couldnt be afforded without capitalism to prop it up. It's all very complicated and I'm not a sociologist so I can't give you thoroughly indepth, complex examples of the mutually beneficial aspects of mixed economies off the top of my head, but there are lots of essays on the subject online.

"The phrase "there's nothing stopping you from practicing communism on a personal level" is remarkably foolish"

Only because you've deliberately chosen to take my suggestion literally and out of context, ducking and diving, so I present it to you like this: "you believe that wealth should be distributed evenly to meet everyone's needs, the very basis of communism. You have an excess of wealth, providing for you beyond your needs. so I put it to you, why do you not give away this excess if you believe in this principle? Why do you not practice what you preach?"

(no subject)

Date: 2008-02-12 08:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cap-scaleman.livejournal.com
Post-modernism is post, it comes after and is by no ways meta, beyond. So it have limits.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-02-11 06:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] georgesdelatour.livejournal.com
Time for a short break

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0unB04j_lw

(no subject)

Date: 2008-02-12 02:28 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] eclectiktronik.livejournal.com
the last time this subject came up (December 07, 'a day in tokyo') you seemed to be championing corporate sponsorship and involvement in the arts! Make up your mind. I got the distinct impression the critical comments I made in response to that didn't go down too well in these parts, so I won't waste anyone's time restating my position. However, these links may prove of interest:

http://republicart.net/disc/institution/sheikh01_en.htm
http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/article526222.ece
http://www.ojoatomico.com/textos/talk_medialab.html (spanish)