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[personal profile] imomus
I spent Tuesday in an intense cluster of thinking people gathered around a circular table at the LSE, trying to generate useful (or usefully far-fetched) ideas about the library of the future with Bob Stein's Institute for the Future of the Book and guests -- about fifteen of us in all. Squeezed in between Cory Doctorow and Eames Demetrios, I scribbled notes in the margins of a copy of Varoom magazine Adrian Shaughnessy had given me in Denver. Somehow the illustrations, silhouettes and collages helped me formulate my stance: basically, that we shouldn't put all our eggs in the basket of digitization, and shouldn't forget that we have bodies.

Sitting nearby was Vienna-based Ruediger Wischenbart, the man whose translation research I based my article on English-language dominance and airline route models on. There was an actual librarian, Clive Izard from the British Library, who obviously had a lot to say about digitization and copyright problems, and dominated a lot of the conversation. There was the Tate's Kate Sloss, who archives artists' documents and materials. And, anchoring it all, very much at the centre of the centreless circular table in the Cold War-era wood-panelled room, the brilliant ex-Maoist Bob Stein, a sort of delicate, stooped, careful, pensive, serious, playful Bond villain planning culture's hideaway in a hollowed-out Pacific island.

Basically, my argument was that, while I appreciate the internet, I can't forget McLuhan's idea that the medium is the message. I worry that our windows on the world are getting increasingly ephemeral, and that each one of them is just a series of circular, self-legitimizing metaphors. While I appreciate the net and especially Google's ability to answer just about any question we have, it's the (largely unseen) framings that come with our current metaphor set -- the proscenium arch of the computer screen -- that disturb me. Imagine a cat or a rabbit watching you surf the internet: your body is rigid, you crane towards this small square of white light. For the rabbit, you're being very stupid and boring. The rabbit knows the important stuff is eating and shitting and running around. While we have bodies, we still live in the material world, and that's the basic bottom line. This may, of course, be a critique of culture in general. But if we ask what a more embodied culture would be like, we ought to remember Eno's idea that "the basic unit of cultural currency is empathy".

I wondered how long computers will exist in their current form: with keyboards, and using mostly text as their interface. I wondered if it wasn't time for literature to come full circle back to Homer, and become something spoken again rather than written and read -- because computers can do that for us. I wondered about ubicomp and everyware. I found myself at odds, a lot of the time, with Cory Doctorow, sitting on my right.

Cory is an odd man. Incredibly bright, he seems to have the multitasking skills of Shotoku Taichi: throughout the meeting, rather than interact with the other people around the table, he tapped away on his laptop, updating Boing Boing or sifting restlessly through images on File Pile. The man has the worst case of ADD I've ever seen; a geek so bright he's become an idiot. His speeches on copyright were super-well-informed, but came across like set pieces he'd delivered many times before at similar events.

Cory seemed, above all, completely committed to the internet's now, not the future; wedded if not welded to his keyboard. Everything, for him, could be fixed by some interface tweak, some new widget. I began to see him as a kind of post-human zombie, bodysnatched by the net itself and the coming machine intelligence it represents; a man whose brightness reflected the internet's ability to tell us everything and nothing at the same time, a man drifting on a rising, rushing white noise tide of information away from basic human-level empathy. Maybe I saw something of myself in him too -- a self I'm wary of becoming. An autistic node on a promiscuous net.

It was refreshing to turn from Cory to Keri Facer from Futurelab, whose emphasis on social justice and inclusion provided the sort of liberalism, empathy and awareness of the world I found so lacking in Cory's hacker-libertarian worldview (a worldview a lot of my work at Wired was intended to question, unsettle and infuse with some sort of ethical awareness).

If I was keen not to see all cultural information ending up serving some sort of post-human machine age in which we ourselves have become the ultimate "post-bit atom" -- notable for the mere fact of not being digital -- I was also keen not to lose the elitism of the book tradition: the fact that some monologues are better than conversations, that there's a "great tradition of the best that has been thought and felt", that not all text is chatroom or blog ephemera, that the book is actually a much more permanent back-up than the web, that recent digital forms (like Bob Stein's excellent CD-ROMs for Voyager) have been swept away a mere decade after they were invented whereas the book persists (some even say we ought to be backing the web up on paper!). At this point, rather than channeling Eno or McLuhan, I became Lord Reith rolled up with F.R. Leavis.

I felt that we were in danger of becoming Swift's Laputans, scholars so absent-minded they need to be bashed on the head every few seconds by servants carrying inflated bladders on sticks, just to remind them where they are. In our case, that reality is our material existence in a frail, overburdened world, the justice with which we organize human relationships, and the fact that we have bodies. Somewhere in there, I'd like to think, is the continuing existence of a small number of exceptional people who make these things we've called, up to now, books and stored, up to now, in libraries.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-10-17 09:06 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Soul only projects.

Interesting days.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-10-17 09:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] saint-claws.livejournal.com
Are you familiar with the art of Stelarc? I'm more interested in his early skin hanging projects, but his current stuff involves becoming one of your post-human zombies.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-10-17 09:47 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kaipfeiffer.livejournal.com
i couldn't agree more with all you said here. while the internet grants possibilities that are indispensable for me, in publishing and receiving, and i can't even really imagine what it was like to try and get information on something really obscure before google, i think, that exactly because the computer seems to be able to present "everything" in digitized form (which isn't really true at all), the printed book will even be more valued in the future, precisely because so much is going on in the digital world, but all on the same level. in a digital presentation, shakespeare's collected works are indistinguishable from endless forum babble. the existing (still quite limited) computer interfaces are all about distraction, hopping from link to link, program to program. the book is all about focus. and the code filling its pages, in letters or pictures, has always been as virtual a reality as the cyber experience. it's still all in the brain. and even when digital paper gets ready for the market, it will replace printed newspapers, but not books that are produced with care for the materials and their haptic aspects. those are part of the ritual necessary to give a literary text or picture-writings, works that are not foremost about the factual information they contain, their value as singular entities. numinosity.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-10-17 11:30 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kumakouji.livejournal.com
"i think, that exactly because the computer seems to be able to present "everything" in digitized form (which isn't really true at all), the printed book will even be more valued in the future"

Explain how digital media "isnt really true at all" but a printed book is. That seems like such an empty, sentimental statement to make. Explain how a printed text more accurately portrays shakespeares than digital text. Moreover, who are you to speak for Shakespeare. If we were alive today he might love digital text.

"shakespeare's collected works are indistinguishable from endless forum babble."

Wow, maybe you should try reading his work sometime, I can assure you its very different. Isn't that like saying that because dictionaries are printed in books, all narratives are as creatively empty as mere reference material? Thats clearly not the case.

"computer interfaces are all about distraction, hopping from link to link, program to program. the book is all about focus. "

I can focus on one web page and the information therein, because you can't doesnt mean theres a problem with the media (http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/8104/1192420727844on4.jpg). That statement is nonsense.

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Date: 2007-10-17 09:52 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cap-scaleman.livejournal.com
Have you heard of Project Gutenberg (http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Main_Page)? What do you think of it's concept?

(no subject)

Date: 2007-10-17 09:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
I actually slagged it off yesterday at the meeting. It seems already somewhat neglected and abandoned. My experience with it is that you want, say, a bit of Moliere and instead you're confronted with this huge blurb about Project Gutenberg itself, and with copyright issues. It really confirms, for me, that the medium is the message. That an electronic text is not at all the same thing as a book. That we have to rethink what books are -- it's not good enough just to digitize them up and sling them up on the web "plain vanilla".

(no subject)

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Yesterday-Today-Tomorrow

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From: [identity profile] kumakouji.livejournal.com - Date: 2007-10-17 11:39 am (UTC) - Expand

get off the internet

Date: 2007-10-17 09:55 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Interesting...
A few days ago, I went to this ESEM seminar (European Seminar for Ethnomusicology) to present a paper on digital sound archives for popular music, arguing that we know a lot about digitizing the sound of "special" (traditional and non-stereophonic, wax cylinders, 78 rpm's, etc., etc.) recordings... and we don't know own to deal with popular music (and popular culture) materials... "what should enter the archive, and what should be sent to the trash"... I also argued that it's important for the sound archive not only the sound material but the carrier... so I couldn't agree more with you... People at libraries and archives look to the digital domain as a messianic solution to their money, storage, and preservation problems, and so on.

I cannot resist of remembering your post on iTouch when you proclaimed that with those iSometing (iTouch, iPod or iPhone) you simple cannot get off the internet (as the song from Le Tigre)...

I think this a non-ending debate! Get off the internet and let's look at the rabbits... in order for us to learn something that we keep forgetting...

Pedro Félix
(felixlx@yahoo.com)

Jargon in red*

Date: 2007-10-17 11:04 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kumakouji.livejournal.com
"I worry that our windows on the world are getting increasingly ephemeral, and that each one of them is just a ."

How is holding a digital device, reading digital text any different from holding a book, reading print?:

"Imagine a cat or a rabbit watching you read a book: your body is rigid, you crane towards this small square of white paper. For the rabbit, you're being very stupid and boring."

Which leads me onto my next point:

Image

Stop anthropomorphising.

But seriously, I get the point you're trying to make: computers and digital culture are detaching us from the material world around us.

but are they? I think your assumptions are nothing but stigma related to computers and your lack of foresight in regards to how digital media can be consumed. So I ask again, how would, say, a digital book device be any different from a book in regards to detaching the user from the world around his?

"Everything, for (Cory Doctorow), could be fixed by some interface tweak, some new widget."

Ie. He actually had ideas on practical solutions surrounding the digitisation of media as opposed to just expressing baffling, nonsensical tropes and opinions on what his pet rabbit might possibly think about his iMac?

(I love you really, Momus)

"I was also keen not to lose the elitism of the book tradition: the fact that some monologues are better than conversations"

Monologues are planned carefully, conversation aren't. I fail to see how that sets books apart from digital media.

"that there's a "great tradition of the best that has been thought and felt, that not all text is chatroom or blog ephemera"

I don't really understand this but I think you're trying to say that printed text is less frivolous that digital text? It's all relative.

"that the book is actually a much more permanent back-up than the web, that recent digital forms (like Bob Stein's excellent CD-ROMs for Voyager) have been swept away a mere decade after they were invented whereas the book persists"

You're being short-sighted; The methods and materials used to create printed text have been changing for hundreds of years, it isn't like they invented one method and that's stuck around forever since. We don't print books how they used to print books hundreds of years ago, just like we now use DVD instead of CD. Your comparison isn't valid, and I cant see any practical reason why digital media couldn't last as long as a book, which is prone to wear and tear itself and cant be as easily duplicated.

Typography, text (and ultimately communication) is the link between digital and print -- digital is much more versatile because it'll allow much more freedom in regards to how we can convey what we're trying to say.

*"A diction that is made up of strange (or rare) terms is a jargon." -- The Poetics of Aristotle

Re: Jargon in red*

Date: 2007-10-17 01:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cap-scaleman.livejournal.com
Out of curiousity: Have you read Marshall McLuhan?

Re: Jargon in red*

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Re: Jargon in red*

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Re: Jargon in red*

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Re: Jargon in red*

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Re: Jargon in red*

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Re: Jargon in red*

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(no subject)

Date: 2007-10-17 02:19 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Let's not forget the simple fact that staring at a screen is a killer on the eyes. I can't surf and read text sites soildly for more than maybe a couple of hours before I begin to get a headache, whereas I can read printed text for twice as long with no ill effects at all.

Plus books don't crash, freeze up, get edited by the author half way through...

Let's see how easy this "digital paper" is on the eye, eh?

thanx

Date: 2007-10-17 02:40 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I would appreciate if everyone kept up this conversation. I'm a 'librarian' (whatever that means these days) and participating in a panel in a couple months on ethics, digital libraries, and community. All very pertinent.

<3, c

Re: thanx

Date: 2007-10-17 06:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] merrow-sea.livejournal.com
I have old prints and pages from books that are 500 years old and in beautiful condition. My 2 year old 300GB external hard drive, the repository of digital information I value, is starting to get buggy and I expect it will fail within the next 2 years. Despite its own vulnerabilities, paper might be the ultimate back up.

And the concentration I experience when reading a physical book is far richer than the hyper-scanning I do online. I also agree with previous comments on the damage computer use causes to our eyes, our necks, our souls, our attention spans and our relationships with human and animal companions. I love/hate my computer and our dysfunctional and consuming relationship with the internet. Can't imagine life without it, but this isn't the life I imagined. A constant struggle against turning into an 'autistic node'. lol.

Re: thanx

From: [identity profile] kumakouji.livejournal.com - Date: 2007-10-18 06:13 am (UTC) - Expand

http://www.culturalcurrency.ca/

Date: 2007-10-17 02:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pay-option07.livejournal.com
I would like to see everything backed up on clay tablets.
After EM pulses and fire storms they will be the only surviving artifacts.

Re: http://www.culturalcurrency.ca/

Date: 2007-10-17 11:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cerulicante.livejournal.com
I store all my scientific discoveries in knotted rope form.

Re: http://www.culturalcurrency.ca/

Date: 2007-10-18 06:15 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kumakouji.livejournal.com
YES.

Everything on stone tablets. Stone clearly lasts thousands of years where as paper and my harddrive wont.

Stone is the future.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-10-17 02:55 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
The more I think about this stuff, the more I think the McLuhan quote is apt.

I just read somewhere that apparently the average newspaper reader spends more time with a print edition on a single day than the average visitor to a paper's website spends in an entire month. That's fascinating, because it means exactly the same content is being used in radically different ways depending on the medium. More specifically, the vast amount of choice we have on the Internet actually narrows our intake in some ways. We glance at a newspaper website, click on a few headlines, maybe scan a longer piece and that's it. All the peripheral stuff - which might turn out to be the more interesting stuff - passes us by.

- Hugo

Baker is right

Date: 2007-10-17 03:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lord-whimsy.livejournal.com
Image

The web is interesting insofar as it enhances one's actual physical reality--the social circles it expands, the events we're invied to, the creative opportunities it provides, the information one can find on, say, new recipes or terrariums...that connection to the physical world is crucial.

My book started out as fragments on my journal. I designed, illustrated, and typeset the entire book myself on my computer, but I created each page individually and painstakingly like a monk might have, making sure the text was wrapping around the drop caps just so, making sure the artwork wouldn't fill in at the foil stamping was applied, etc. But now I speak heresies...

Text alone is no substitute for texture--and no manmade texture can match the variety, depth, richness and delicacy of the organic. There's far more information in a book than what the text is saying. It's an artifact, not just a vehicle for language.

Immediatism: http://www.left-bank.org/bey/immediat.htm

Re: Baker is right

Date: 2007-10-17 03:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lord-whimsy.livejournal.com
As I typed this, a middle-aged woman jogged by my window, rustling the leaves on the ground with her strides.

Re: Baker is right

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Momus on Jackanory

Date: 2007-10-17 05:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] niddrie-edge.livejournal.com
I like the storytellers. Momus' youtube recitations and his audio lectures were some of the highlights of my year. Reading to audiences has become a large part of libraries community activities here. Writers in residence and all that. Transfer this to the greater audience of the Internet with some nice visual ambiance, the campfire etc and I think we are on to something. I'd like to hope that the social aspects of libraries - a warm place to meet, access, encouragement - are still fundamental in the digital environment.
Before the mp3, we would raid the Audio Library's world music cd's. Up there on the bikes and then to the tape shop to get blanks to make compilations. Stop off at the swimming baths then round to someones house for a cup of tea and some new African or Central Asian musics. Lots of exercise. When filesharing came in the audio library became a less frequent destination. It still had great books even when the Internet started to up its music database availability. Ease of access to information on the Internet has not necessarily enhanced the social in this respect.

I have just jettisoned years of an accumulated personal digital library. No one was coming round to use it. Just me. It's a common cliche to say that the piles and towers of dvd-r's and spindles and folders were beginning to build some kind of Trap or Maze.

At this point I phone my mate the Librarian and ask if he has any internal library plan layout diagrams he can get for me. Do we prefer isolation down some parallel channel, viewing the other through a shelf, over some book spines. Or, do we like the panopticon or open plan where we can see and hear everything that is going on.

Have you ever visited Colinton Library in Edinburgh, Nick? Its like a beautiful little cottage in a leafy suburb. A strange early 20th Century green seems to predominate.

Re: Momus on Jackanory

Date: 2007-10-18 01:11 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
[Error: unknown template video]

(no subject)

Date: 2007-10-17 09:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lord-whimsy.livejournal.com
Cory frightens me.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-10-17 10:42 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Why?

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Date: 2007-10-18 04:05 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lord-whimsy.livejournal.com
It's very strange reading this post about the future of books after spending all day talking with the curators and directors at the Rosenbach Museum and Library (working on a design project with them at the moment). Holding the original manuscripts and letters of Oscar Wilde and Joseph Cornell is quite a post-bit atom experience, I can tell you.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-10-18 08:00 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
I must say, this piece (http://www.radaronline.com/from-the-magazine/2007/09/google_fiction_evil_dangerous_surveillance_control_1.php) by Cory Doctorow is brilliant.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-10-18 08:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lord-whimsy.livejournal.com
A cursor clicking on a search window, over and over again.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-10-18 12:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] karinmollberg.livejournal.com
Hello, sorry for being a bit off topic (my speciality) but:

it took a long time for me to come here, though I´ve been sneaking in before. I remember I found your place "too cool" for me at first glance, and left quietly, unnoticed. I believe there was a gender discussion going on, then, that put me off, a bit. I get enough of that in my swedish blogs. Small countries seem especially affected by it, as far as I can see. By the way, both (all) genders (were and) are perfectly (al)right, but tend sadly enough to communicate not so much with, but "beside" each others, as far as I can see. But, we shall overcome, one day.

This time I came here via annica-annica (whom I found at PetrusPlancius´ whom I found at both LordWhimsy´s and JermynSavile´s) and read your "Click Opera - The virtue of making a virtue of (someone else´s) necessity" at annica´s page.
That entry of yours fascinated me, especially because I just dug out my old Rudofsky "Architecture without Architects" from 1964 and posted some of it together with some Filonow.

Call me a late bloomer; only now I am starting to read here at your place, may an old, mostly gleeful hag stay? In that case I should like to add you.

Beware Bob Stein

Date: 2007-11-02 11:39 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Oh, beware, Nick, beware...Bob Stein is an amoral vampire, with absolutely no compunction about demanding brutal hours at slave wages from his idealistic staffers, then wadding them up and discarding them when he's squeezed every last drop of juice from their young bodies.

More? He continues to maintain this ridiculous "Maoist" posturing - doubly offensive in that he's happy to defend the ideology and the individuals responsible for the mass suffering of the Cultural Revolution in parlor blather, yet perfectly willing to cozy up to various Gettys and the like should it suit his momentary needs.

In short: the man is the worst sort of poseur and hypocrite, thoroughly undeserving of your praise. Don't be fooled.

Re: Beware Bob Stein

Date: 2007-11-02 12:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
Well, I don't know what your experience was (and since you don't give your name we'll never know), but to me he was generous to a fault. What's more, his staff seemed loyal, and his Maoist anecdotes were told (in the pub afterwards, at my request) with a certain self-irony.