Tell me about couples and surfing!

[imomus]

I'm about to write my next Wired column. I've decided it's going to be about the effect of information addiction on the life of couples. And I'd like your help, because I don't want it just to be me going on about me. But naturally it starts with me, what I've observed in my own life. Here's a photo of me and my then-girlfriend (she's now happily married to someone else) Shizu, back in 2002.



We're sitting at breakfast, each glued to our iBooks. Now, I'm not sure if there's anything "wrong" with this picture. If we were reading newspapers, nobody would think it terribly strange. We're both nerdy people who thrive on a constant flow of information. Not all of our life together was spent staring at a computer screen. But quite a lot of it was.

In a sense it was a life-saver: crammed together in a tiny Tokyo apartment, our iBooks gave us a sense of "electronic personal space" which filled out the limited physical space. Each screen was like a virtual private room we could retreat into.

But I'm also interested in the problems that "information couples" run into. I know that I don't really watch TV any more. I'm online all the time. But whereas a couple watching TV, curled up on a sofa together, may have felt "together", a couple surfing on two wifi laptops are visiting different sites, having different experiences. They seem more apart than together. The internet age feels less communal than the TV age did.

So how does surfing impact on your relationship? Is one of you more info-addicted than the other? If so, is there a sense that the less-addicted partner is some kind of "information widow" (or widower)? Bereaved by the internet? Does one of you have more to do online than the other? Does the first one to be bored online dictate some offline activities, or does the one who wants to stay online longest make the other one click around aimlessly for hours?

What about surfing as a form of sociability: do you e-mail each other interesting website addresses? Do you tend to visit the same kinds of sites? I know that when Hisae and I are surfing, language divides us: I'm visiting English-language sites, she's on Japanese ones. But quite a lot of our interaction is me asking her for explanations of things, Japanese stuff I don't understand. When that's going on, we'll either bring up the same page on two machines, or huddle around one. It's actually more sociable than TV. (Of course, maybe the TV is on at the same time.)

What about more dubious areas: are you secretly looking at porn with your partner right there in the room? Are you flirting with someone else, messaging someone? Because the weird thing about this technology is that it makes what's distant seem closer than what's close. Absent people can have more presence than present people. Or do you look at porn together? What about YouTube videos? Is surfing turning back into TV-watching?

What's the sound of a couple surfing? Dead silence, broken only by the sound of two tapping keyboards (quite a pleasant sound, actually)? Is music playing, and if so, who chooses it? Is choosing which iTunes accesses the sound sticks via Airport Express the new fight for the TV remote?

And how close or far apart are you physically when you surf? Are you lying on the same sofa, legs intertwined, laptops touching lids, or sitting at opposite ends of the house on imposing desktops?

Tell me about couples and surfing. I'd like, if I may, to use some of your comments in my Wired piece, so please tell me your full name (or the name you'd like to be known by in the piece). If your comments are off the record, say so. And if you don't want your partner to know you're spilling the beans to Momus, tilt your screen away now.

Comments

[geeveecatullus.livejournal.com]

I am single so I cannot speak to myself, but it amuses me so much when couples I know sometimes communicate with each other via instant messaging because they are too lazy to walk to their respective rooms.

[geeveecatullus.livejournal.com]

*speak for myself of course.
I speak *to* myself quite a lot.

[rhodri.livejournal.com]

Just before I started reading this entry, I remarked to Jenny that it was fairly unusual for us to be sitting up in bed, side by side, laptops on our respective knees. She was making the mistake of looking up the symptoms of her sore throat on line (it could be syphilis, apparently) and I was trying to get Spectrasonics Trilogy working for a rehearsal this afternoon.

Now I've read this above, I feel slightly better about what seemed distinctly antisocial 10 minutes ago. Of course, if we were both reading the Sunday papers, that would be fine, although it would be a bit weird, because it's Tuesday.

[imomus.livejournal.com]

Ha, I'm getting into your habit of asking my readers for help with my tech-related articles, Rhodri! Does that make us an "information couple", I wonder? Pass the sugar, sugar!

[nato-dakke.livejournal.com]

congratulations on what is by far your most interesting subject yet for a piece at wired.

Wish I could contribute. My girlfriend and I don't get but a couple nights together a week, so I just hold off. We both profess to using the internet all evening when there's nothing to do, but we never chat or email one another. Our relationship is pretty well cordoned off into the analog.

[sheaffy.livejournal.com]

How did the article turn out? (http://www.sheafdesign.co.uk)

[amiame.livejournal.com]

My boyfriend and I spend a great deal of time online. I love new information, new sites, new images - everything is so easily accessible, everything moves at such speed. I like keeping in touch with my friends through reading their Livejournals or other blogs, and through MSN, as I don't live near the university I go to, and it's a hell of a lot easier than phone calls. I also access a lot of online texts for my course (through JSTOR, or Project Gutenburg, or suchlike place) so I don't have to go and buy loads of books. I love being able to Google a new band I've heard of, and find out loads about them, instantly, or type in some strange term, and have Wikipedia explain it for me. On a geekier note, I tend to spend time on online forums as I'm in the ABJD hobby (asian ball-joint dolls/dollfies), which is quite obscure in the UK, so the only way I CAN communicate with other people through the hobby is the internet. I love the internet 'language' that started out on bulletin boards, and how quickly it mutates. I love buying random crap on eBay. I love finding any picture that I want. I love being able to download music I can't find in the shops.

Initially my boyfriend could feel a bit left out, but it's not uncommon now for us to be both sat in his bedroom/kitchen (like your photo) with both computers on. Although we may be looking at different sites, there isn't anything furtive about it - for one thing we sit next to each-other, so we can see each-other's monitors. Also (somehow) my boyfriend connected the computer to the tv, so we can watch Youtube on the television screen, or anything else - films, music videos or Flash cartoons or anything that takes our fancy, just as if we were watching a tv channel together - except we can select the information, and tailor it to our own geeky tastes :)

If I was more into the internet than he was, or vice versa, then I can imaigne it could cause some conflict. But the way we are I don't really see it as unhealthy or ubergeeky: it's our 'magic box', a tool, an instrument, it does what we want, we can read anything, see anything, anytime we wish. But we have other stuff in our lives as well - we go out to gigs, work, we do art things, we lie around not saying anything.

My real name is Anna C. :D

[xishimarux.livejournal.com]

When I'm by myself (Hello my name is Alex :) I use the internet for just about everything. Social contacts to musical research comes from the internet. My girlfriend Christina likes to watch TV and uses the internet for research but it's not as important as Laguna Beach or whatever else is on TV. Which is fine by me. Yin and Yang. When we surf together she's sitting on my leg or in my lap hanging out. We look up movies or look up the weather at the beach and get out the house usually. Sometimes it's used for ... erotic purposes and we leave to the bedroom. lol. When we use it together its a tool to further our relationship. When she goes to China to visit her family I'll get emails and we'll Skype together now that there's a version for OS X. Someday I want to travel with her so we look up travel spots and good places to go. My computer is also my studio for music so I'll test some tracks out on her in Ableton or show her the latest trick I learned. I know she's not really that interested but it's nice she'll hang with me while I musically nerd out. I try not to around her but sometimes it can't be helped. Well thats it for me :)

[lecabinet.livejournal.com]

My boyfriend and I met at a real life meetup for people on LJ, rather than through a dating site or such, and I know that the way we met has affected out relationship. I feel like I 'owe' LJ for us meeting, we tend to write filtered posts between ourselves, much nicer than an email.
IOur online addictions have also come between us; only last night I went out, turning my speakers off but leaving iTunes on. Through LastFM my boyfriend thought I was still at home and kept phoning me. Being internet stalked by your own boyfriend is pretty rubbish.

One more thing; watching someone else surf is the single most frustrating thing. We both have desktops in our respective houses, so when he comes over he gets a bit posessive with the mose. I've been known to leave the room to stop myself looking over his shoulder.

[geeveecatullus.livejournal.com]

Through LastFM my boyfriend thought I was still at home and kept phoning me. Being internet stalked by your own boyfriend is pretty rubbish.

hahahahaha! That's too cute.

[mcgazz.livejournal.com]

Her: Draped across the couch, in front of the telly, laptop on lap.
Me: Sat in Blofeld-style chair in small upstairs room, desktop on desk.
If one of us wants the other one, we go and get them - we don't email each other unless we've had a row and aren't talking.

[stanleylieber.livejournal.com]

We've both had laptops for years and text chat while sitting next to each other on the couch. We also chat all day long while at work, so in some ways our relationship is more real than traffic congestion and shift schedules. I don't so much separate the online interaction out into a degenerative form of communication though; it's difficult to communicate things like images, sounds and URLs through speech.

[imomus.livejournal.com]

Good point, that! I have a tendency to think of computers as something "textual", something which can't match the textural qualities of real world interaction. But of course they're texturally more rich than language on its own can be.

[fugitivemotel.livejournal.com]

I was talking about this topic with some friends recently. I think you'll find the blog entry named "ben", in Amanda Palmer's blog (Amanda is the singer in the Dresden Dolls) of some interest. It's a fascinating look at how couples can sometimes interact better through the internet than in real life: http://www.dresdendolls.com/diary (scroll down to the entry named "ben").

[onthemoon.livejournal.com]

My girlfriend and I have spent most of the past 2 years living on opposite sides of the country (thankfully coming to an end in 3 weeks), and one of the common, rather silly, practices we have developed is sharing links via aim during our phone conversations of whatever random things we may be talking about. So we manage to surf together despite being on opposite sides of the country.

[heinzbitte.livejournal.com]

I guess this is kind of like what lecabinet said. But I wonder if couples who actually met on the Internet and before they met in person used instant messaging to talk, now feel like it is still a normal thing to do when they are right next to eachother.

[wickedanima.livejournal.com]

Being a 'plugged in' couple works quite well for myself and my boyfriend. More often than not, we are online separately, if only because of his nightshift hours as a front desk clerk of a hotel. In that case, I can often keep in touch or feel more 'close' to him without having long phone silences with occasional gushy commentary. IM is just as good if not better, and a lot less distracting.

When we do surf together, it is almost always side by side, and we are more than contented to simply email one another links or pictures that we find amusing. Although the closeness may be due to the fact that we live in a small place, we do enjoy one another's presence regardless of what distracting activity is being enjoyed. We don't listen to the same types of music, so it is generally a TV show on in the background.

On the dubious hand, we are not the types to be jealous. We both have a peculiar sensibility that allows us to share any good/amusing/interesting Porn that we should stumble across on the internet (and as he is quick to point out, a good majority of it comes from me.) As for flirting, the same rules apply as in real life if we are at a club, flirting is fine, because everyone knows who will be in the flesh and blood in his bed tonight.

[maestro55.livejournal.com]

I just have to agree with you, too many people seem to be jealous about who their partner is talking to or what they are looking at. I think that if two people are in love they should be content enough to casually flirt with others (generally nothing is truly meant by it).

Sounds like you and your boyfriend have everything down the way you two like it, and that is great. Nice when you can meet someone who you can have a relationship with and not be second guessing eachother all the time.

Steve

The end of factual disagreements

[(Anonymous)]

Hi, I am Hans, Norwegian living in Tokyo. I'll let you in on a blessing and a curse for an internet addicted couple: It prematurely ends most disagreements about facts. One thing is being at home, rushing to the computer to look up some disputed fact - that was possible in the past, albeit a bit more time consuming, with a good encyclopedia at hand. But here in Tokyo, our keitais are equipped with full fledged browsers (no i-mode, many au phones run Opera). So imagine sitting at a cafe, just starting a lively discussion about a Soviet republic or something, and Siren (my girlfriend) flips up her phone, looks up the factual tidbit, and triumphs by both finding it AND it is of course in her favor. No thrill. No sullen looks. No knocking over of tables. No make-up sex.

Re: The end of factual disagreements

[imomus.livejournal.com]

But even before the internet existed, did anyone have make-up sex over a Soviet Republic? I mean, apart from Gorbachev?

[(Anonymous)]

A couple of years ago I saw a piece at an art show in Bonn, I think it was, where an artist (a Svedish one, I seem to remember; sorry, can't be more precise) had reconstructed the virtual rooms he had imagined together with his girlfriend when they were living on different continents and could only communicate via chat. (talk, for those old enough to remember.)

Slightly off topic, as you want to know about physically copresent couples, but it brings in the art angle you might otherwise miss. (I'm sure the Japan angle is sorted already.)

der.

[moodycow.livejournal.com]

i think you are referring to christian jankowski: http://www.medienkunstnetz.de/works/lets-get-physical/

[dr--ben.livejournal.com]

i love our geeky life on the sofa. without wanting to be too pedestrian and domestic, one thing i'm really grateful for is how it's opened up a whole new area of domestic drudgery that i can at least derive some satisfaction from. a man's place is definitely making the network attached storage work, etc. the only question is how long it can be until we get cleaners to sift through the accumulated crud.

[dr--ben.livejournal.com]

and we fight over juice, so i bought my girlfriend a new power supply for her birthday last week and decorated it lovingly with embossed hearts. oh, and we talk about each other in blog comments without the other one noticing. heheheh.

[n3koch4n.livejournal.com]

me and my man, nezmar, spend most of the time at home and in front of our laptops for work, study and personal stuff. we also talk a lot, and often our online activities are the subject or the inspiration for our conversations.

basically, stuff we have to say each other we say out loud; stuff that has to be looked, read, or used we show or send one another.
we don't have a television and don't watch movies, but we often talk and show each other what we are looking at on our computer screens, just as we talk about the books and comics we are reading. as it has already been said, there are things that are specific and are shared better in ways other than talking or even showing. so we send each other links via mail or del.icio.us, share files, private lj entries and online to-do-lists.
whenever we are away i noticed we write much many more emails to each other, sending links but also saying stuff that otherwise we would have talked about.

most of time we sit one by the side of the other, and often stroke, kiss and hug each other while we are surfing or working. we don't have many 'privacy problems', and i noticed that even if we have laptops and wireless and several place we can go and sit alone, we mostly end on the same table or the same couch together.
when he's concentrated on writing for work my man doesn't like to be touched or talked to, so before talking to him or stroking his cute little head i have taken the habit of glancing at what he's doing and deciding if it's a good moment or not.
we also have slightly different sleeping patterns, so we usually get some 'alone time' for additional concentration or surprises when the other is sleeping.

we also don't have 'the remote problem': we mostly like or embrace each other's musical choices, and usually ask if and what the other wants to listen to before popping a cd into the hi-fi or starting a playlist.

hope this helps. our names are s. and n. and we have been living together for more than four years

[jmathewes.livejournal.com]

My husband and I (2 years married) spend quite a bit of time on separate computers, in separate rooms, on opposite sides of our apartment, doing completely separate things at our own carefully-maintained desks. He usually surfs for biographical information on musicians that he loves, looks for other artists that he'd like to investigate, and keeps up with friends via Instant Messenger and on message boards. I usually work on photographic or design projects on the computer, using the internet for keeping up with friends, research into a specific topic, or as a procrastinating measure.

Both of us can be covetous of the others' time, which can make the internet/computer problematic, but no more problematic than any other activity alone. I'd say that we experience the typical push and pull for attention in an average couple.

I could never imagine sharing a computer with my husband, because both of us are so used to having our own virtual (and physical) territory to retreat to. I feel that it strengthens our time together, because we spend time invested in the things that we're interested in, which gives us a great deal to converse about when we're having dinner or relaxing in each others' physical presence. Our computers are not ends in themselves, but extensions of passions and hobbies that would be a demand on our time regardless of whether or not we owned a computer or had access to the internet.

My real name is Jocelyn.

[(Anonymous)]

This has less to do with everyday things like surfing together, but my bf and I almost certainly wouldn't be together if it weren't for the internet.

We met coincidentally when we were both waiting for the 6-train on 68th street. He's German and was on a three week vacation in New York; I was on my summer break. At the end of the three weeks, when he had to go home, we decided to give long distance a shot (after all, why not?). We've been together for two years now, despite the fact that two-thirds of the time we are on our respective continents.

When we're together, we're generally out and about rather than surfing the internet together. But when we're apart we make good use of email, instant messaging, and skype. We usually use email to set up skype dates and then instant message while we talk. Sometimes we skype each other as often as every other day (although not usually that often) for a few hours or more. We usually are surfing the internet while we skype (although in different languages and separated by an ocean), but that usually makes for worse conversation.

[(Anonymous)]

God, I feel so sorry for you!

[reflejos.livejournal.com]

There are conversations I can have only by e-mail. So, we can discuss issues very difficult to talk about. We are able to talk in a very particular way. There is something poetic in an e-mail correspondence, even if you see the other person everyday. The e-mail personalities can be somehow different.
(Alejandro)

[shirash.livejournal.com]

My last boyfriend and I met randomly at my school. he lived 10 hours away (I'm in boston, he's in maryland). There was a gap of six weeks between our first meeting and our second, and the way we got to know each other was through my radio show, which was webcast (wzly.net) every week he would listen and- before the show- make requests. Often, I wouldn't have the music and the station wouldn't either, so he would send the files to me through AIM.
...
We were together for two years, most of which was spent communicating through AIM and text messages. As a writer, I thought it was a way to be more 'articulate' communicating--no listening to awkward pauses. You'd say what you have to, then be done. We saw each other in person about one weekend a month, maybe longer on school holidays... but when you don't see someone, how "real" is the relationship?

[beverlyhillscop.livejournal.com]

It's not real at all. It's bullshit. You just cannot have a real conversation with somebody unless you're sitting next to them in the same room.

I refuse to have any kind of significant conversation through any means but face-to-face with my partner, unless that is impossible (in which case I will settle for a phone conversation, while being fully aware of its weakenesses as a communications medium).

[mr-tom.livejournal.com]

heh - your breakfast photo there is remarkably similar to my situation over here, with me and she sitting opposite each other with laptops in the kitchen.

I think it's only a matter of time until a sensible furniture designer makes a kissing seat with a shelf for one's laptop.

[imomus.livejournal.com]

Ha, that touches nicely on another piece I have to write, about some designers of communal furniture, for ID magazine, mid-June!

[bklyndispatch.livejournal.com]

while I am definitely the more information addicted person in my relationship, i think our laptop wifi experience has done more good than harm to our relationship. here's a couple of ways I think its changed our relationship:

1. We email each other constantly during the day, which is a nice break from work, but not nearly as distracting (or as likely to get us in trouble) as phone calls would be.

2. I think the fact that we have both have livejournals have brought us and our respective circles of friends closer together. Now, when I meet a friend of my lovers for the first time, I already know quite a bit about how they will be. I think that makes for easier social interaction.

3. as far as the bad, I think my lover would prefer it if I wasn't checking blog at two in the morning in my underwear, and thinks its a little creepy that I talk about people I have never met in person as friends

this is a great idea for an article, I look forward to seeing it.

I'm the other half

[shinybolt.livejournal.com]

I agree that Dispatch is the more info-addicted, which works out nice for me because I get the download from him on general affairs during breakfast and dinner.

Emailing a lot during the day is great. I love checking in with him about how our days are going. It's made us closer as a couple and I think allowed us to have more substantive conversations when we actually see each other when we both get home.

I think it also helps us to get our work done. We both have fulltime jobs and are in school and this allows us to do our work, but also spend time together. And we use each other as sounding boards as we work alongside each other.

A big difference for me is that when I get home or on weekends, unless I have to, I don't really want to spend a lot of time on the laptop after doing it all day at work, while he could spend hours surfing. I'd rather do other things, read, cook, ride bikes, clean house, etc. But, I think we've come to accept this about each other and it works out alright.

LJ has been a fun way to share each others thoughts, values, and friends. Funny, I may have thought that thinking of online friends as real friends was a little strange at first, but as I've gone more online (much at his inspiration), I've seen how people can form a community w/out ever meeting each other in real life.

[the-xtina.livejournal.com]

I'll email you my real name, and all comments I make here are fine for publication.

[regarding my boyfriend]
I am more info-addicted than he is.  I spend anywhere from 4 to 8 hours online a day, assuming that I'm working and there's nothing special going on.  He is self-employed outside the home (theatre tech), so he doesn't often have time or energy to be sucked in like I am.  He feels a bit behind on our social circle news, but he listens to NPR a lot, so often he has the news info angle, and I have the social and weird tech angle.  It's quite nice.

When we're both online at the same time, generally we'll email each other interesting things, or IM if we're feeling particularly dorky.  Sometimes I want to see his reaction, so I'll call him in to experience something I've found.  (I have a desktop, and he has a laptop and desktop, so.)

We have different tastes in porn, and we both feel viewing porn is a rather private thing, so neither of us would be inclined to do that while the other is in the room.  Though we have sent each other stuff we think the other would like.

If we're both on our desktops, usually we play music at a level where it doesn't drown out the other's.  (Same with his game volume levels, when he's playing whatever games he plays.)  My computer is in my room and his is in the common area, so we're usually separate, unless I switch to his and he goes on his laptop.  He's more of a desk person, and doesn't often put the laptop on his lap, so we're usually separate.

[the-xtina.livejournal.com]

or the name you'd like to be known by in the piece

How I missed this the first time around can probably be attributed to caffeine withdrawal.  Feel free to refer to me as Xtina, should you use my comments.  :)

[regarding my girlfriend]

She has a laptop, and I have a desktop.  (Or, I'm visiting her in NY, and I'm on their house desktop.)  I think of her as being more info-addicted than I am, but mostly because I think she has a brain of holding in her skull.  Strangely, the person who stays online longer is the person that is being visited.  Which makes me wonder what would happen if I had a laptop and was visiting her...

Our site visitings overlap a bit, but we do visit different sites a lot.  We email each other all sorts of things, depending on the day.  I rarely look at porn around others, and while I'm sure she looks at erotica at some point while we're surfing together, I'm fairly certain it's within the context of writer/editor, not necessarily consumer.

I'm guessing she flirts with others more often than I do when we're both surfing, but that's mostly because she's on IM more often.  *shrugs*

The person being visited usually plays the music, unless the idea of music hasn't come up, or if the visitor has something interesting to share.  We're usually conscientious about not playing music the other person dislikes too much, and sometimes will get into discussions about music.

We're often in the same room, sometimes touching, often not.  I can't speak for her, but when I'm online, I prefer not to be consistently touched.  I get very focused on online stuff, and being touched drags me away.  (It's a soft preference, so if we're already touching, I most likely won't pull away.)

[rosefox]

Hi! I'm the girlfriend she's referring to. *)

It's very funny to read this and see how different my perceptions are. I'm almost never on IM, regardless of whether Xtina is around, and these days I don't have anyone to IM-flirt with (*sniffle*). I hadn't made the "The person being visited stays online longer" connection; I think that has something to do with letting the guest take as much time as she likes--so usually the host will get offline very shortly after the guest says "I'm done"--but I'm not sure that's all of it.

I think we both have iTunes playlists for music the other one likes. There's not much overlap in our tastes, so those get a fairly serious workout when we're together.

In Xtina's house, the wireless network doesn't work in her room, so I tend to be out in the living room while she's online from her desktop in her bedroom. I'm always very conscious of that distance, and I always wish I could use my laptop to go online from her bed so that we can talk about what we're doing. We IM, but it's not the same.

I note that with both Xtina and my husband, sitting around reading books together is also a favored form of shared inactivity.

[heinleinfan.livejournal.com]

Found your questions via a link from regyt.
My husband and I only have one computer, a desktop. I basically got him addicted to it, he not having one before we moved in together.

So we have "time together" that winds up being one of us on the computer playing games or surfing while the other putters around or sits in "the big blue chair" (next to the computer) and reads.

I don't think it has distanced us when we are at home since before he really started spending a lot of time online, that time would be spent with us both in the same room but each of us reading.

Having only one computer in a house with two addicts, though, that can be a tiny problem sometimes. There is a definite sense of "who gets the computer" when we've been out all day and are arriving home at the same time. Also, occasionally one of us is actually doing *work* or some other important thing on the computer and the other of us just wants to play online Catan...and those situations are tough sometimes. (We were both only-childs...maybe if we'd had siblings to share with growing up we'd be better about it.)

[imomus.livejournal.com]

Having just one computer between two people can be very stressful. I remember when my iBook was broken, I was using Hisae's for a while. Initially it was rather exhilerating to find how easy it is to switch users in OSX -- a cube rotates and you're in your own environment, with your own bookmarks, desktop pictures, etc. But of course only one of you can be online at a time. Eventually H. burst out crying one day -- I'd been selfishly hogging her window on the world.