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[personal profile] imomus
Now here's a thing. I'm off to Kyoto tomorrow for a couple of days. My next Wired column is due on Wednesday for publication next Tuesday, but I've written it today, and recorded the podcast mp3 file too. It's all ready to go... but I'm not entirely happy with it. (The pictures here don't really relate, by the way: I'm just in a Bruno Munari sort of mood.)

The reason I'm not entirely happy is that my article asks a question, but doesn't really answer it. So I want to try some "open source journalism" today. I want to throw this question open to you, and see if you can convince me to rewrite my piece on Wednesday evening when I get back from Kyoto. Perhaps you can focus my mind.

The article is based on a hunch I have that it's easier to be alone in public in Asian countries than it is in the West. Now, if Asian countries are collectivist and the West is individualist, you'd expect the opposite to be the case; you'd expect individuals to be catered to better in the West. You'd expect there to be more things a single person could go out and do, of an evening, in the West than there are in Asia. And certainly, there are things to do if you're a Western monad, a singleton at a loose end in a big city. You can go down to the gym, the skating rink, to church, to a casino, to a brothel. But you can't go to a sento, a maid bar, a manga cafe, a counter bar, a soapland, or various of the other infrastructural facilities Japanese cities have for single people visiting the "floating world".



In the West you always feel like a bit of a loser when you're eating alone in a restaurant, visiting a cinema alone, even just sitting alone in a cafe. I know I do, anyway, and I know I don't feel that way in Japan, partly I think because things are laid out differently here. Sushi and ramen bars, ticket restaurants, sentos, these have layouts and etiquettes which accommodate single people. They slurp noodles facing a wall, these happy monads, they make loud appreciative hippo noises as they wallow in the warm water next to complete strangers. Nobody alone in the West ever feels that much at ease with strangers in public. Do they?

I read online how a lot of people felt pretty wretched this last Valentine's Day. They felt like the third leg. They felt like all their friends were couples, and they couldn't go anywhere without feeling tragically... single. It strikes me that, basically, in the West we plug into society in the unit of the dyad, the couple, whereas in Asia you can plug into the collectivity as a monad, a singleton. I'm not quite sure why that is, but it seems to be the case. Is it because in a group society you're never alone, or because in a group society you really need to be alone?



This is what I want to run by you for open source testing. Anyone who's lived in Asia and in the West, do you share my take? Is it really easier to plug directly into the collectivity as a monad in Japan, for instance? Does America expect you to plug in as a couple? Do you feel like a loser reading a book in a restaurant facing an empty seat? Do you imagine the waiters are looking at you with pity or contempt? Do you feel like the basic social unit in the West is the couple, and if you do, how does that square with the image of the West as a paradise for individuals?

I may be quite wrong about this: it's quite possible that for every sad person in the West on St Valentine's Day there's a sad person in Japan on Christmas Eve (when you're supposed to go out with your lover)... as well as on St Valentine's Day, celebrated here too. And for every "quirkyalone" in the West, maybe, there's a "loser dog" in Japan, a person other people pity for being left behind in the race to couple up. These things operate in all societies. But my idea is that in theory it shouldn't just be as hard for individuals in Japan as in the West to plug into society directly, without coupling up. It should, intuitively, be much harder, if the West really were organized around individuals as it claims to be.
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(no subject)

Date: 2006-02-20 03:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wringham.livejournal.com
As much as I hate to get all Alan de Botton on you, I reckon this is down to status anxiety. In the Individulist culture of the West, more emphasis is put on individual achievement rather than that of the collective and being single is a sign of one's failure to sustain a relationship.

The trepidation we feel as a result of being alone in London or Glasgow or Manchester is the result of the Western perception that a partner or a friend is an extension of one's succesful self.

after martin's article...

Date: 2006-02-20 03:21 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
i doubt you'll ever be alone again...I observe you still read ILE then?

Re: after martin's article...

Date: 2006-02-20 03:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
There's a lot of anguish of this sort on ILE. And yes, I'm not very often alone... but I do remember being alone as a student. And I used to go to the Queen Mother library at Aberdeen University at night and just read. I loved the fact that the library was there, open so late, and that you could go down there and plug in, as a monad, to the world of books, which is a kind of wonderful mute collectivity, a society of wise voices. I really missed that after I left university, and it's an image of how cities could be.

I really liked when Malcolm McLaren ran for London mayor, and had as one of his policies that museums would stay open all night. That was a step in a good direction. Well, would have been!

(no subject)

Date: 2006-02-20 03:45 pm (UTC)
ext_65258: (Default)
From: [identity profile] translucent.livejournal.com

[post hoc: Turns out I'm seeing this a lot less from the 'couples' point of view - I find it personally bizarre and more widely indicative of what you do suggest that 'Quirkyalone' is a registered trademark at all, when surely many 'quirkyalones' are alone only in the 'significant other' sense (the website itself praises the importance of 'social constellations') - i.e. that it's the dyad that's seen as important by the masses and rejected by the few. I have a feeling that is more universal than East/West; however...]

I may be coming at things from completely the wrong angle here, as well as only having the credentials of having lived in the West, but all this "plugging in" talk does plant in me a certain set of ideas: that in an individualist society one's approach to these bits of society might be to work hard to associate oneself with others, to snap up a lover and a social circle - but does collectivism imply that such social networks/structures are a lot more free, more up for the offering, just as being born into an extended family provides from the start a well of blood ties to draw upon?

Rather than the dyad it's this 'social constellation' idea that seems to be so important here - the Valentine's angst is certainly in the air now, but it's to do things truly alone that's the sore thumb. There is the 'dating' halo around certain activities when they're between two (prospectively) romantically-attached people, but logistically there's little difference between a dinner for two and a dinner for three or four. All are perceived to be good company; company is perceived to be a good thing. One who might want to appreciate such an activity alone, on its own merit, is an outsider.

This Western form of individualism seems as though it fosters this odd urge for active foraging - you can be self-sufficient, but only when there's an element of competition. A social group is a necessary asset to oneself and should be worked for. Self is still judged by comparison to the other. Ack! Where have I ended up? Is this really individualism at all?

There's an abstract. Now it wants some actual experience to prove or disprove its worth!

[also forgive me, I have tonsillitis and am a bit head-spinny currently]

(no subject)

Date: 2006-02-20 03:52 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
You can go down to the gym, the skating rink, to church, to a casino, to a brothel. But you can't go to a sento, a maid bar, a manga cafe, a counter bar, a soapland, or various of the other infrastructural facilities Japanese cities have for single people visiting the "floating world".

Most of these examples seem a bit strained to me. As far as singleton activities in Japan go, I'd say shopping and pachinko/slot rank among the most popular (the latter basically being impossible to do as a "group" activity). I no longer feel particularly self-conscious eating alone in a restaurant in either Japan or the UK, though I do generally prefer to have a book or newspaper to hide behind while I do it. One of my Japanese friends made an interesting point about cafes, though - she said she could spend 4 or 5 hours in a cafe in San Francisco, just ordering a single cup of coffee and then sitting and reading... yet in Japan, she doesn't feel comfortable doing the same thing. Well, unless it's a manga cafe, but then you're paying by the half-hour, aren't you?

Oh, completely unrelated point: might it be easier in a collectivist culture for an individual to be ignored by strangers (i.e. people who aren't members of their in-group)?

(no subject)

Date: 2006-02-20 03:59 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
to get a good decoding of this it might do well to gain knowledge of familial structures in the east vs the west. for instance, i notice that families in the east are more supportive of their children as they grow into adults. where in the west you're out of the house by 18 or earlier if possible. the person alone in Japan is given more spatial recognition because the collectivism/extended family if you will, of Japanese culture is a support system, just as in the actual Japanese family the support of the family continues into adulthood. the person alone in the west is seen as the brave soul going it alone. un-coupled in the west means less family connection, less consumptive, but a better employee. i do imagine that one thing the single, uncoupled Japanese and westerner share in common is the hope that the big family dinner will end soon and he/she can get on with their lives.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-02-20 04:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ashleybot.livejournal.com
I agree with all of this.

I only lived in Japan for a couple months as a student and I remember consciously feeling like this, but I wasn't sure if maybe I felt like that because I was a gaijin and expected to do things oddly. But also, maybe it was the opposite. How I should have, as a foreigner in a strange country with a completely different language that I'm pretty terrible with, felt way more intimidated to go out and do things alone.

It should have been much harder. I didn't even consider the awkwardness of going to see a movie alone in Odaiba, even through the "picking out a seat to sit in" thing that they have going there, whereas here in the states, I'd be mortified, sitting in the theater all by myself.

Japan is, however, very obviously a very "single" (as opposed to couple, not group)-oriented society in the sense of marriage rates and ages and the declining population. Also, it's such a group-oriented society that perhaps people are seen as single people working for the larger group, rather than a greedy individual that rejects the group for the one-on-one of a couple or smaller group.

I could probably formulate that a lot better but I have a Japanese quiz to take now. It is a really interesting subject, so please keep writing about it!

(no subject)

Date: 2006-02-20 04:11 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
You've overdetermined your binary. The West doesn't 'claim' to be all-individualist all the time, even in the U.S. Sometimes the rhetoric is individual liberty, but just as often it's patriotism or the family or even the Christian faith. These may be forms of social solidarity you don't like, but they're there and they're very much a part of the American mindscape. You're also lumping a lot of different things together in the 'West'. Half the Western world is Latin, after all, and the Latin mentality is far more collectivist-orientated.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-02-20 04:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] triestine.livejournal.com
Got me thinking, particularly as I was born, raised, and still live in South-East Europe which is neither 'Western' not 'Eastern' in its attitude to life. Around here (I'm thinking of the Mediterranean in general) you'll feel comfortable on your own, sipping your drink in a cafe or reading, and you'll feel comfortable in a crowd, particularly if there's food involved.
I lived in the UK for a while and felt that people don't really know how to enjoy themselves over there, alone or in groups. I've not lived in Japan but it doesn't seem attractive either for the same reason; people I've met from either Japan or the UK seem constantly under some pressure of etiquette regardless of whether they're in company or not.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-02-20 06:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] merrow-sea.livejournal.com
As someone who enjoys being alone, I'm hyper-aware of how various cultures react to this. I felt surprisingly comfortable traveling in Asia, despite being very unprepared re: language and cultural understanding. I lived in rural Hawaii for years. It has a powerful asian cultural overlay; if you're living among the locals, that is, if you're a haole without the insulation of wealth, it feels more like an Asian/South Pacific country than America. I felt comfortable being single there in a way that I don't on the mainland (USA). Hawaiians have notions about the extended family, ohana, and adopting people into it, hanai, that are incredibly generous by western standards. The Japanese community there is polite and kind, and one feels cared for. You never have to spend a meal or a holiday alone if you don't want to. Do don't have to ask to be included, you are asked, without fail.

I think it has to do with cultures that are rather more gentle, less judgmental, versus competitive cultures that weigh everything about you to a set of narrow benchmarks: social status, schooling, success, couple-dom... And not just East versus West: I feel comfortable traveling/being alone in mediterranean regions, but not so in Paris or NY where I do feel like a loser who's just taking up table space. But that's about profit and table turn-over, too. I love going to movies alone, no matter where I find myself. I hate the tendency, in the US at least, for friends to succumb to couples-only social cliques. When I've been in long-term relationships I've done everything I could to keep my social world diverse: young/old, straight/gay, brown/white... Anything else is simply boring.
Additionally, as a woman alone, comfort also has to do with feeling safe in certain cultures as opposed to feeling like prey. Gentle versus ruthless cultures, or respectful of women as opposed to dismissive? Yet that's over-simplified; we're not held to the same standard as a woman who belongs to the culture we're visiting. I felt like a foreigner first in Africa, a woman second. The people I met were wonderful, but various African cultures I visited were ruthlessly patriarchal. Social webs and networks can also be cages, especially for women.
I'm on my way to Central America and will be alone part of the time. I'm curious to see what that feels like.
Ultimately, wherever we live/travel, it may be simply the exoticism of being the entertaining stranger that we feel in other cultures, while in our own we are considered nothing special. And our comfort-level might be based on being the Other, outside of their cultural standards for judgment.

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] lord-whimsy.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-02-20 07:18 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

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(no subject)

Date: 2006-02-20 04:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] contentlove.livejournal.com
In truth, I feel quite at home as a monad in the US. Whereas, when I was studying and travelling in India and Nepal, people would question me about my solo state and act like they felt really sorry for me on occasion. Of course, I'm female, and that makes a difference when you're in India and Nepal. But talking to friends about it, male and female, Indian and American and French, we found that guys alone got a similar treatment at times, and that in general, it's more expected that people will run around in groups.

Meanwhile, here in Austin, it would be very easy to forget that some people think it's weird to eat alone or go to the movies or the theatre alone or whatever. I see it all the time and do it when it's convenient.

Notes on the West

Date: 2006-02-20 05:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] instant-c.livejournal.com
-Look at what personal success means in each culture.
-America in particular can see success as a big family/big posessions
-Success is "not being alone"
-winning means many friends at your disposal
-issues of OWNERSHIP, companions as object/strength
-cultural celebrations, are these centered around how many people( christmas needs at least two to give presents, valentines, etc.

Just some brainstorms for you, hope it helps some.

Yup.

Date: 2006-02-20 05:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tristan-crane.livejournal.com
Western culture is heavily marketed towards being a couple. Partly I feel that it's due to holidays like valentines day, one of the most lucerative outside of x-mas perhaps for sales of chocolate, flowers, expensive dinners out, ect. There is a strange ostracism experienced by people who go to movies on their own, having done so in the past, when I've told people that I went because no one else wanted to see whatever film I was interested in, or people were unavailable at that time, the response was always slightly incredulous.

I wonder if it's also a basic maturity issue. Eastern spirituality focuses more on the individual development and experience, while western is all about the group forcing you the right direction.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-02-20 05:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cheapsurrealist.livejournal.com
The reason I'm not entirely happy is that my article asks a question, but doesn't really answer it.

Which brings to mind two of your songs that offer questions without answers: "What will death be like?" and "How To Get And Stay Famous". Although the latter does get answered with "I have no idea".

Two of my favorite Momus songs. But can you pull it off in a magazine article? I have no idea.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-02-20 05:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cheapsurrealist.livejournal.com
Being uncoupled on New Year's Eve is much worse than Valentines Day.

Alone in a cafe for hours - fine.
Table for one at a restaraunt - loser.
Cinema alone? - Great

I'm doing this from memory because I've been married for 21 years.

The Cinema thing may have changed now that all the good repertoire theaters are closing. I don't know if I'd get the same feeling watching a blockbuster at the Megaplex. But you would still get that alone in a dark room full of strangers experience.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-02-20 05:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bunkadoo.livejournal.com
I have no personal experience with your question, but I was reminded of this part of the New York Times Valentine's Day editorial in the form of a pop quiz (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/19/opinion/19coontz.html) by the social myth debunker Stephanie Coontz:

10. American women have more positive attitudes toward marriage than Japanese women do.

TRUE. In 2001 schoolgirls around the world were asked whether they agreed with the statement that everyone needed to marry. Three-quarters of American schoolgirls agreed. But in Japan, 88 percent of schoolgirls disagreed.




questions

Date: 2006-02-20 05:59 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Is this phenomenon as true in rural areas as it is in urban ones? Is it a product of existing in a relatively cramped environment? Is it the result of low levels of cohabitation before marriage?

Does this nation's ethnic homogeneity and social harmony inculcate in its inhabitants a propensity to switch off to their surroundings? Do people in the West instinctively seek safety in numbers? Do Westerners have a weaker sense of self and therefore need the company of others to validate their existence?

Have an ingrained reticence to express one's innermost feelings and the tradition of pre-arranged life-long relationships, a high proportion of which are passionless, led the Japanese to give up hope on ever truly finding a "soul mate" and psychologically conditioning themselves to accept a life always somehow alone, never truly respected or wholly understood by their life partner?

On these islands

Date: 2006-02-20 06:05 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
is every man an island?

(no subject)

Date: 2006-02-20 06:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lord-whimsy.livejournal.com
Could it be that you're already deemed an 'outsider' in Japan, and therefore the usual societal laws do not fully apply to you?

(no subject)

Date: 2006-02-20 07:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nina-blomquist.livejournal.com
being able to spend my days, and even nights, comfortably on my own, without ever feeling conspicuously alone, was one of my best experiences that i brought home from traveling in china, and my short stay in japan. part of it had to do with safety. the streets were always crowded with pedestrians and i hardly ever felt the sense of threat i know from walking around in american or european cities alone at night. another reason was that i didn't notice that many men following the prey-logic. when somebody talked to me i could normally tell that they weren't checking me out, just because i didn't have a male companion. at least that's how i explained to myself that i felt so comfortable. but you are right, safety alone doesn't explain why it felt perfectly fine to go to a show without company or to sit around in a noodle shop without a bit of a weird feeling. i noticed more smiles, less suspicious, judging glances. of course being a foreigner might have made me see everything through a romantic haze, but then, isn't feeling foreign supposed to make you feel less not more at ease?

(no subject)

Date: 2006-02-21 07:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] csn.livejournal.com
So, where did you spend your time in China?

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From: [identity profile] csn.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-02-21 11:27 pm (UTC) - Expand

that weird feeling..

From: [identity profile] svenskasfinx.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-02-21 08:44 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

Date: 2006-02-20 07:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] akabe.livejournal.com
if you let all this stuff in it'll ruin your article. if you don't keep the japan (even a semi-fictional one) is different angle i'm afraid it'll turn tepid.

it's not just you because you're an outsider. some vague 同じ日本人 feeling aside japanese people also feel outsiders.

i also, like others here, feel uneasy about your 'the west' lump but, well, too bad, someone's got to keep the Rafcadio Hearn spirit going.

Singleton diners

Date: 2006-02-20 08:16 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Here in the north of England, the only restaurants that don't make me feel like a sad spinster when I'm eating alone are Chinese buffet restaurants.......... And the worst ones are italian eateries with tables-for-two......

(no subject)

Date: 2006-02-20 09:04 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
"This is what I want to run by you for open source testing. Anyone who's lived in Asia and in the West, do you share my take? Is it really easier to plug directly into the collectivity as a monad in Japan, for instance? Does America expect you to plug in as a couple? Do you feel like a loser reading a book in a restaurant facing an empty seat? Do you imagine the waiters are looking at you with pity or contempt? Do you feel like the basic social unit in the West is the couple, and if you do, how does that square with the image of the West as a paradise for individuals?"

Yes, yes, yes. Until you get to the last part. The basic social unit in the West is a group, not a couple. It seems backwards, but it's perfect logic. Would you just walk out into the Old West by yourself, guns drawn, or would you form a posse? In a society of strident individuals, you need the protection of a group. Of course, as an individual, it's your choice of who, what, when that group is. Unless you're a loser - someone who cannot form a group or isn't accepted into a group.

Japan is the opposite. I wouldn't say that you "need to be alone" when you're in public, rather the opposite. You need to be alone in public to be in a group, otherwise you're immediately ignored by other people. It's that sort of active Japanese privacy - if you're not in their group, they ignore you. The easiest way to be a part of a group in Japan is to be alone. It's sort of like telling society that you're part of the collective group. If you go out with your friends, you're asking for privacy.

In America, if you go out with your friends, you're asserting yourself.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-02-20 10:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cheapsurrealist.livejournal.com
someone who cannot form a group or isn't accepted into a group.

You mean like Yoko Ono?

(no subject)

Date: 2006-02-20 11:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] xaotica.livejournal.com

in the states i have never felt uncomfortable dining alone, going to a movie alone, etc. the states does have the equivalent of a soapland and my city has bathhouses. don't know what designates a counter bar though.

however, i agree with the woman who said it might be a safety issue. many of my female friends have no philosophical issue with going out alone, but they often don't feel physically safe being alone late at night in certain parts of the city (depending on which city they live in of course.) actually, it goes beyond women... i know some men who would rather not go out alone for that reason too (esp. gay men.)

from what i've been told, japan is a lot safer in terms of likelihood of getting raped, shot, pickpocketed, etc.

Alone in a dyad

Date: 2006-02-20 11:38 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I think you're on to something - in America we have unbelievable
pressure to form a nuclear family; after the lust wears off, people may find themselves incredibly alone, having invested so much in this one person, expecting to get everything they need in life from them.

As a person unsuited to the dyad (I prefer monastic periods alternating with periods of extended friends and family, helping with the wee ones) I generally feel most at home in a bustling place where ages zero to 100 are out and about; even if I don't know them personally, their presence is a signal that "this is a nuturing place". Places I feel most ill-at-ease: where it's all 20-somethings trying too hard to attract a mate (because forget it, you're not allowed to socialize over 29!. Most lonely place I've ever been: Vancouver, B.C. Most festive place I've been lately: Miami, latin america's northernmost city. Sadly, I've not yet made it to Japan.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-02-20 11:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
May I just say these are all terrific and thought-provoking answers. They all throw light on the subject, without any of them completely illuminating it. I think it's a very difficult question, one which requires an incredibly complex set of social models.

I still gravitate back to one of my original suggestions, which is that in a group society you're never really alone. But I'd add that as a foreigner in Japan, my (what Symbolic Interactionists would call) "master identity" (the one that banishes all others, the "tipping point" identity) is that of "foreigner". So that means that secondary things like "alone", "ectomorphic" or "looks like a pirate" are -- rather comfortably -- banished.

I'd also say that in the Wired article I do break up the West; I'm not so monolithic as I'm being here. For instance, I quote a chunk of text about the differences between being alone in London and being alone in New York.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-02-21 01:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nomorepolitics.livejournal.com
I agree with all this, except that I think the US is collectivist and Japan is individualist, as I wrote in your previous post (http://imomus.livejournal.com/173200.html?nc=87) on this subject a few days ago; my ideas (http://nomorepolitics.livejournal.com/#nomorepolitics2078) of what individualism and collectivism mean are certainly very different from yours, but I think yours is more widely accepted.

Many Japanese women I met complained about Christmas for a different reason. They said that their boyfriends would always expect to have sex in some sleazy love hotel; the problem was not the sex but that their boyfriends would behave like jerks, expecting to be treated like kings for the day and have everything done for them. But they felt more upset on white day if they didn't receive any candy. My girlfriend also told me that Japanese girls always hunt for boyfriends before Valentine's day and then as that day approaches they become more and more neurotic. Some of the boys take advantage of this and make as many girlfriends as they can; then a lot of girls end up getting stood up when the day comes, as the boy chooses to meet the most promising girl.

But then, I'm not an authority on this, it's just what my girlfriend and some Japanese female coworkers said.

for the individual

Date: 2006-02-21 02:47 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I would never go out for dinner, movies, or to a bar/club on my own back home (Australia). Simply because it is no fun to do so – much more enjoyable with friends.

But in Japan, I go out on my own every now and then, and enjoy it. Two reasons:
1.I feel empowered by the fact I am already “alone” in the sense of being non-native.
2.Sometimes choosing to be alone means choosing to momentarily separate yourself not from people, but from the culture, the language, the stereotyping, etc when you feel over it. Like taking aspirin for a headache.
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