imomus: (Default)
[personal profile] imomus
I love sex and eroticism. But I don't love the lewd choreography of raunch, and I particularly don't like the current Western ideology that raunch is a form of empowerment. Ariel Levy, in her interesting new book Female Chauvinist Pigs, calls this ideology "raunch feminism":

"Our popular culture," says the New York Times, paraphrasing Levy, "has embraced a model of female sexuality that comes straight from pornography and strip clubs, in which the woman's job is to excite and titillate — to perform for men. According to Levy, women have bought into this by altering their bodies surgically and cosmetically, and—more insidiously—by confusing sexual power with power, so that embracing this caricaturish form of sexuality becomes, in their minds, a perverse kind of feminism."

When I think about the reasons I reject both raunch and the idea that raunch is a form of feminism, I have to admit that they relate to class. Raunch as choreography emerges from working class strip bars, cheap Western porn tapes, sexist rap videos. It confuses sex with the sex industry, and sexiness with pimping and whoring. It also confuses all sex with dick sex: its main move is the thrust, and its main facial expression the rock-guitar-solo "gurn". There's a whole other thesis in which I accuse raunch of being the rockism of sexuality, and rail once more against the cabaret of empowerment unleashed on the world by the "Chicks with Dicks", Peaches and her ilk. And there's the "moronic irony" line, in which I accuse raunch feminism of being a performance inside quotation marks in which ambivalence about the choreography of raunch is acted out, underwritten by the insurance policy of "oh, we're just being ironic". Moronic irony lets the other side win by allowing us to ape its moves without reaping its profits (which, in the case of the porn industry, are considerable).

My main objection (apart from the visceral aesthetic objection) to raunch feminism is this. Feminism as a project has two sides: the dismantling of patriarchy, and the empowerment of women. Raunch feminism proposes that women can be "empowered" without dismantling patriarchy... in fact, by embracing "the male gaze" entirely.

In an interview with Salon, Ariel Levy says: "In this new formulation of raunch feminism, stripping is as valuable to elevating womankind as gaining an education or supporting rape victims. Throwing a party where women grind against each other in their underwear while fully clothed men watch them is suddenly part of the same project as marching on Washington for reproductive rights."

If you want to see the ideology of raunch feminism—the idea that women can achieve empowerment without bothering to dismantle the male-centric values of patriarchy— in action, you just have to turn to an article in last week's Sunday Times. The article ran in the Style section which, from the URL, you'll notice the Sunday Times groups as a "women's interest" (presumably on the assumption that only men are reading the politics and economics sections of the paper). "Tokyo is still the most mind-melting city on the planet, but, as Jessica Brinton reports, its radical fashion, sexual bravura and cultural weirdness are finally beginning to liberate its women". And there we have it, the usual idiotic, cliched Western take on Japanese women. They are "behind" Western women, diminutive, cute, squeaky-voiced and "submissive" creatures who are only now beginning to catch up thanks to... well, thanks to raunch.

"Japan may be one of the most patriarchal, male-dominated countries in the world," says Brinton, "yet top of last year’s Japanese bestseller list was a novel by the young Japanese female writer Hitomi Kanehara, called Snakes and Earrings. The story was about a young girl obsessed with extreme body piercing, tattoos and violent S&M." The implication here is that being obsessed with self-injury is a radical blow against patriarchy rather than its internalisation, its utter penetration of a woman's mind and body.

Japan is conservative, says Brinton, "a country where females are still not allowed to ascend to the throne. The 1960s and its feminist revolution never happened there." Wow, so feminism was all about allowing every country to have its own Queen Elizabeth II! Who knew? Brinton continues with her catalogue of "feminist" developments in Japan: male hairdressers are now trained to flirt with their female customers! And there's something we might call 'equal-opportunity objectification' going on: "We all know about hostess bars, the men’s pleasure domes that hit the big time during the 1980s economic boom. Now there are host bars too, for Japan’s rich and independent-minded women."

Inevitably, the Sunday Times gets around to the old prostitution-as-empowerment line: "The Japanese are the mad professors of consumer desire, and Shibuya girls — female teenagers who treat this place like their playground — are the most brand-savvy of all. They congregate inside the auditory bedlam of the Shibuya department store 109. Or outside McDonald’s, where they occasionally pick up older men for a few hundred yen (the extra cash goes towards the latest Chanel handbag). Aggressive, self-empowered and sexy, they dress as they want — from orange tans, razor-sharp stilettoes and microskirts, through Victoriana to extreme punk with pink nail varnish — shop as they want, and behave exactly as they want."

Woooh! Yeaaaaaah! How much for thirty minutes? Raunch feminism, you rock!
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(no subject)

Date: 2005-10-26 08:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dmlaenker.livejournal.com
Well, the Times is a Murdoch mouthpiece, what do you expect?

I agree that raunchy sex performances are not necessarily liberating - anyone can attest that lesbian sex acts fall very neatly within the male gaze, not least in that men seem to believe there exists an implicit invitation - but I don't know at what point, by your argument, the acts of sex and the ideas of sexuality and gender (not to mention beauty) are capable of being liberated from the patriarchy.

By the way, this is the best thing on LJ. Bar none.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-10-26 08:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
I don't know at what point, by your argument, the acts of sex and the ideas of sexuality and gender (not to mention beauty) are capable of being liberated from the patriarchy.

Well, I think we have to start with the idea that men's way of running the world is not the ideal one, and that women might make a better job of it. That they might fight fewer wars, for instance.

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Money changes everything.

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Date: 2005-10-26 08:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nickdoro.livejournal.com
yes, feminism seems to be quite confused now. there appears to be a re-assertion of more traditional gender roles: lad mags, paris hilton, and a general "raunchiness" in pop culture. this is not how men or women should be. it all seems terribly immature.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-10-26 05:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] theantisuck.livejournal.com
youre mistaking pop culture for feminism. there is no one "feminism" and we're not "confused". its actually a huge debate among feminists; raunch vs. antiraunch, porn vs. antiporn. hop in we need men like you.

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(no subject)

Date: 2005-10-26 08:37 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] deerscare.livejournal.com
hey i agree with you here... when "raunch feminism" gets political (ie. highly sexed political slogans during election times such as "lick bush in 2004" etc.) my friend [livejournal.com profile] apropos refers to it as "Vagina Feminism". ive been noticing it as a gradually increasing trend since riot grrl times (like when kathleen hannah was into writing SLUT across her stotmach - it was much more aggressive and less male-gaze oriented but still highly centered around "reclaiming" sexuality in a way that glossed over or completely ignored certain problems with sex/the sex industry).

anyway, though i consider myself a feminist i've had difficulty relating to any specific movements, especially 3rd wave and onward (mainly because of this kind of thing).

(no subject)

Date: 2005-10-26 08:49 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
I think a lot comes down to this word "empowerment". It's a word which, like "reform" or "liberalisation", has come to mean precisely the opposite of what it originally meant.

Does empowerment mean tapping into a power that already exists, or devising a new form of power? In other words, does it involve conforming to the way things are, or preparing a future in which different values come to power?

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From: [identity profile] chuckdarwin.livejournal.com - Date: 2005-10-26 11:43 am (UTC) - Expand

self-fulfilling prophecy.

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by all means

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Re: by all means

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Re: by all means

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Re: by all means

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Re: by all means

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Re: by all means

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Re: by all means

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(no subject)

Date: 2005-10-26 08:54 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] 33mhz.livejournal.com
Though Peaches is raunchy, it's not the safely and purely feminine sleaze of something like the suicide girls or Lil Kim. She strikes me as always having been much more about genderfucking than just plain fucking.

In her "Fuck the Pain Away" video, she's slowly overtaken by her own bodyhair, and she follows up on this by appearing on the cover of her second album wearing a black singlet and a shaggy beard. Though she still might be a sex object, she's certainly not the object of normative sexual desire.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-10-26 09:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
No, she's taken raunch feminism to its logical conclusion, which is that women become men without dicks.

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Re: :)))

Date: 2005-10-26 10:31 am (UTC)

(no subject)

Date: 2005-10-26 09:25 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
I particularly love this bit of the Sunday Times article:

outside McDonald’s... they occasionally pick up older men for a few hundred yen (the extra cash goes towards the latest Chanel handbag)

A few hundred yen? You mean, up to a thousand? As much as ten dollars? And a Chanel handbag costs... well, you're the Sunday Times, you tell me.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-10-26 09:52 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dmlaenker.livejournal.com
I do have to admit it is funny watching people not get Japanese money.

Surprisingly enough, you even see it in some Japanese television, with people taking bribes of as much as five bucks.

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From: [identity profile] dmlaenker.livejournal.com - Date: 2005-10-26 01:45 pm (UTC) - Expand

Hyaku-En Kogyaru?

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Date: 2005-10-26 09:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lord-whimsy.livejournal.com
According to a reader's review of her book, Levy (incredibly) seemed to overlook what is probably one of the principal causes of this trend: bad parenting.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-10-26 09:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
I honestly don't think that parenting can do much about media memes that will infect your child. Unless you live in a Shaker village, you'll tend to pay more attention to the media than your parents from the age of... ooh, 4?

Sky +

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(no subject)

Date: 2005-10-26 09:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ghostinthephoto.livejournal.com
I feel sick when I hear people call things like suicide girls feminism. Feminism can only be achieved when females become more powerful in intellectual fields and not just the arts but in the sciences as well, if you want to see feminism rise look to the schools not pop culture. Although you could very well dived the social structure into two clear classes the educated and the non educated. Feminism could grow very powerful in one and be void in the other. As well as the economic class divide. Like most social movements feminism may gain respect in some classes and be perverted in others.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-10-26 10:28 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chuckdarwin.livejournal.com
Porn made by women is still porn.

Feminism has become a very cloudy issue. I personally believe that all the advances women have made over the last century or so have been confusing for everyone.

Having children is not conducive to a career of any sort, no matter what anyone says, and putting very young kids in care for 40+ hours per week is a terrible solution for society in general.

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From: [identity profile] chuckdarwin.livejournal.com - Date: 2005-10-26 12:57 pm (UTC) - Expand

Moronic Irony = Morony

Date: 2005-10-26 10:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chuckdarwin.livejournal.com
I see that you failed to mention the exercise craze that swept Hollywood a few months back... Strippaerobics, or summat.

I don't think women these days know how to quantify their role in society, and it's not just Japan that has a problem. 'Should I have a baby, and When' seems to be a much more burning question than 'How can I do my part to dismantle the patriarchy'.

The Fashion Industry itself objectifies women, and the vast majority of women readily consume it and all it entails: outdated ideas about feminine perfection, body dismorphic issues, the lot. I see that a lot more women enjoy porn these days, as well. Do they like the part where the dude ejaculates all over the actress' face? I've never asked anyone.

The deification of 'women' such as Paris Hilton only proves that a lot of money and a thorough knowledge of fellatio is enough to make you a celebrity these days. That's JUST the lesson I want my daughters to learn.

Re: Moronic Irony = Morony

Date: 2005-10-26 10:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
Here's a nice article about poledancing as excercise trend (http://icuxbridge.icnetwork.co.uk/lifestyle/tm_objectid=14521331&method=full&siteid=50102&headline=why-poledancing-is-no-longer-a-dirty-word-name_page.html) in the UK.

blush

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Re: Moronic Irony = Morony

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Pater

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Re: Pater

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(no subject)

Date: 2005-10-26 11:01 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] 33mhz.livejournal.com
It's hard for me to hate on "raunch feminism" too much, because it strikes me as a symptom of transitioning from a cultural state in which female sexuality was strictly and externally regulated to a state of full sexual autonomy. Although this move is not guaranteed or irreversable, I hope that some day women can go about being sluts or mothers, both or neither, without having to assure anyone that they aren't going to destroy society with their sexual expression or lack of it.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-10-28 03:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] stanleylieber.livejournal.com
Yes, but your thinking seems less dominated by the things you find ugly.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-10-26 11:54 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] d-g-m.livejournal.com
Don't the Japanese support institutions for sexuality that are seperate from an individuals role in society which make it incomparable to the Western construct because the cause of oppression isn't apparent?

(no subject)

Date: 2005-10-26 12:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jina---.livejournal.com
This is a very interesting but really difficult to discuss subject.
Let's just say that humanity goes through a phase, where sex and women are in a really weird and complicated thesis.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-11-04 08:19 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
How long should we wait?

(no subject)

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sounds familiar

Date: 2005-10-26 12:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cheapopulance.livejournal.com
this discussion reminded me of an article on lads magazines in the guardian weekend magazine. http://www.guardian.co.uk/weekend/story/0,,1596384,00.html
i'm not much of a feminist. i thought it was a historic or acedemic term that is confused with sexual revolution. i thought humanism was a better declaration of intent for myself. this raunch stuff seems awfully convienient for peddlers of smut.

Ironic Machismo

Date: 2005-10-26 01:49 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I'll wait till Ironic Machismo is in vogue, so I can abuse my wife and neglect my children with a wink in my eye (see? I'm being ironic!)

Oh wait, that already happens right?

(no subject)

Date: 2005-10-26 02:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-silence-song.livejournal.com
You've put in words what I have been thinking for years. amazing . thanks! :)

(no subject)

Date: 2005-10-26 02:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rougewench.livejournal.com
I wandered over from [livejournal.com profile] chuckdarwin's link to this entry.

Thanks for a most excellent statement illuminating an interesting disconnect...a thoughtprovoking start to my day.

Me, I'm all for woman expressing themselves however they deem appropriate, but they should truly understand the motivations for their choices and the full ramifications of those choices. Those that choose to embrace raunch for the sake of it's "power" are failing to truly step outside the general socialization of what women programmed to be...they are simply stepping from one end of the socialized continuum to the other.

Making that choice is to break free of one form of social control only to willingly take on the binding of another...one label for another...this is not truly empowerment, even if the individuals do experience a sense of freedom in their liberation from the initial form of social control.

Until women embrace the female libido, instead of working within the confines of the male gaze, there will not be a true balance of power along the sexual continuum.


D.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-10-27 09:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] halokitty.livejournal.com
very well said, thank you!

(no subject)

Date: 2005-10-26 03:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cap-scaleman.livejournal.com
""Tokyo is still the most mind-melting city on the planet, but, as Jessica Brinton reports, its radical fashion, sexual bravura and cultural weirdness are finally beginning to liberate its women". And there we have it, the usual idiotic, cliched Western take on Japanese women. They are "behind" Western women, diminutive, cute, squeaky-voiced and "submissive" creatures who are only now beginning to catch up thanks to... well, thanks to raunch."

Western masculine culture can't understand a eastern feminine culture as it seems.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-10-26 04:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] azzy23.livejournal.com
Ironically, I *just* posted to my own journal this morning about the irritation I feel when I see some young, stupid thing practicing what I like to call "topless empowerment." Do you mind if I link you?

(no subject)

Date: 2005-10-26 08:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
You're welcome!

Deep Throat

Date: 2005-10-26 04:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rachaelnoel.livejournal.com
I agree entirely with your points about raunch feminism, but I think a great deal of the issue is tied to the porn industry as a whole. Perhaps I'm biased, having recently viewed 'Inside Deep Throat' (http://www.insidedeepthroatmovie.com/) all about the infamous porn film that made a massive splash in American media and legislation.

A great deal of the documentary has to do with the sexual revolution as taking place in adult films. It's strange to see Hugh Hefner's shock and dismay to find that women protest against a film that depicted a woman as finally reaching sexual satisfaction by giving a blowjob. It's sad to see Linda Lovelace be used by the feminist movement as thoroughly as she was by the adult films.

Towards the end, it focuses on the ghettoization of the American porn industry. Through legislation and through the government's success at closing down all adult themed theatres just as VHS came on the market, the porn industry has been permantently crippled. Direct to video allows cheaper and cheaper production values, and also allows the viewer to indulge in watching his filthiest fantasy without the slightest consideration for actual female desires. The people involved in Deep Throat express a great deal of dismay at what has happened to the adult films as a whole. Deep Throat came out of the (supposed) desire to show that two people could actually have fun and enjoy having sex; the kind of film that couples could actually go to see together to learn some techniques, or just enjoy seeing people enjoy each other. They'd dreamt of an adult film industry where the budgets would be equal to mainstream films, and the line between the two would blend.

Instead it became, well, raunch, and as raunch seems to have become porn's greatest selling point, it's constantly trying to find new depths to stoop to. Gonzo porn is the most popular style of pornograpic film in America right now. Girls getting fucked with thier heads in toilets, crying, embarrassed. In comparison, stillettos and miniskirts and a bit of attitude is a terribly powerful position.

This whole outlook spreads like a virus. Most young men watch porn to get answers and insight about sex, and absorb these ideas without realising it. All media becomes permeated with this outlook, and huzzah! Getting a man to worship your breasts becomes something to strive for.

Re: Deep Throat

Date: 2005-10-27 04:37 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
gonzo is nothing so sinister as that. It's just first person porn, with deliberate awareness of the camera, and the actresses (and occasionally actors) interacting with the camera/ cameraman or woman. It's basically any porn that doesn't try to emulate a movie.

an aside.crying and embarrasment, as well as rape are a lot more common in japanese porn than stateside. Momus winds up so complimentary of japanese sexuality largely because he sees it through the eyes of his women.

I love our beloved protagonist momus' writing and ideas, but he is really, really far removed from the average middle class japanese person, especially males.

THANK YOU!

Date: 2005-10-26 04:42 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Hi. I hope you don't mind an anonymous post. Just don't have a journal set up.

I want to thank you for expressing your opinion and sharing this woman's work! I feel so much the same way! Sharing your opinion here was a breath of fresh air and yes, I'd go as far as to say even healing for me. I was feeling horribly out numbered with my feelings and some big pain resulting from the current sexual climate that seems to be spreading like a bad disease into what was looking like everyone's consciousness and resulting lifestyles. I was feeling so horribly alone.
THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!
BLESS YOU.

Innocent, loving kiss to your forehead and heart,

a sister for LOVE.

I love feminist men

Date: 2005-10-26 04:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ewigweibliche.livejournal.com
Thank you for your thoughtful comments about this. It's great to hear a man's perspective on raunch culture, since "they" would have us women believe that men like this sort of thing. Yesterday I put this book on request at my local library and have been pondering writing my own entry about Levy's book, the press about it and my own thoughts on raunch culture. I also appreciate that you brought up class in your discussion. It seems to me that this too often is forgotten. It's one thing for women to be able to choose to play the sexpot, if they're educated or have money they can opt out later to be something else, but for women with limited means, the only power they may be able to scrounge up is sexually power - they don't have the means of bucking the system or perhaps growing up to be a lawyer.

Anyway, thanks.

Re: I love feminist men

Date: 2005-10-26 10:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ewigweibliche.livejournal.com
PS Also, thanks for putting a picture of Gwen Stefani in your post. She can kiss my ass. For so many reasons, besides just inane music. Her co-optation of Japenese culture offends me, and I'm not even Japanese.

Re: I love feminist men

From: [identity profile] nicepimmelkarl.livejournal.com - Date: 2005-10-27 01:31 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

Date: 2005-10-26 04:54 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I reckon feminism will have only truly succeeded when every woman, everywhere in the world has cast aside the shackles of patriarchy and fully realized their potential to become... Japanese Women. The patriarchal notion that different woman may wish to express themselves in different ways will dissipate (like false consciousness is wont to do) and then the entire female population of the world will join together to create an enormous electronic blip-bleep synth band. And once their vintage analog instruments have been tuned, they shall play (conducted by Momus, of course, whose image will be projected onto giant video screens around the world). And in that moment, the sound of a million blip-bleeps will permeate the very souls of men everywhere. In droves they will all put on dresses and burn their guitars in the streets. Never again will the sound of a big scary man playing a big scary ROCK guitar solo offend the ears of clever people who find such things distasteful.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-10-28 03:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] stanleylieber.livejournal.com
The fact that this seems like a negative outcome to you only serves to illustrate your ignorance of etc. etc. et al and so on.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-10-26 07:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jemly.livejournal.com
i apologize if i am repeating someone--but there are just far too many comments and too little time....

as a woman--this is where i find myself in this dilemma:

if i, one day, wake up and decide i do not want to wear make-up, i would have to face three types of people:
1) those who say "damn feminists. do not feel ashamed to embrace your femininity
!! (assuming, of course, wearing make up is an attribute to femininity
--which is a slightly different topic)
2) those who say "good you're doing what you're suppose to do as a woman.
3) the indifferent.

make up isn't the greatest example. but my point is, that there are the feminists who advocate toppling the patriarchy--may that be through achieving equality or even switching the ranks. there are the post-feminists who say that to embrace a life style that is more masculine--or rather, simply 'less' stereotypically feminine--is actually repressing women even more through degrading femininity and what it represents. its like a game of idle tug-of-war: both sides are pulling so hard that nothing is moving. everything(one) is stuck

which brings me to i the danger in generalizing gender as a whole like this...
so i will make it personal:

* when i was 18 i got my nose pierced. did i have this stud to come across as a "sharky" (as you put it) "don't-fuck-with-me (but please do)" woman? well, not initially. i got it--as silly as it sounds--because a girl i had looked up to since i was 10 years old had one...and it was just a desire of mine to fulfill once i turned 18. now, that was a few years ago. i concede my piercings have transformed in "meaning" (if they must have one) and now represent something i never really intended them to. does this make me "anti-woman" ? surely not.

* recently i cut all of my very long, curly hair off. i now wear it very short, sans curls. does this make me a sharky/raunchy anti-woman because i decided to merge away from the conventional feminine long hair? no, of course not. i did not cut it because having long hair is the more "feminine" option. i cut it because it is MUCH easier (and cheaper) to handle now. unless of course anything convenient (and therefore comfortable) is anti-feminine. some would, i imagine, argue so...as i havent worn a pair of heels since i can remember.

~and on the other side~

*i have the tendency to be submissive in...intimate circumstances. does that really mean that in doing so, i am submitting the entire "sisterhood" ? of course not. it just turns me on. what can i say? (of course i could go into more details of why this is but i'm already being overly self-indulgent as it is in this reply)

*recently, i see children and melt inside. this is something new--i confess--but nevertheless, it does not mean i suddenly want to quit my life aspirations and settle down. i am multi-dimensional. eventually, potential motherhood does not jeopardize the existence of other dedications in my life, and shouldn't be made to feel guilty by so-called feminists for recognizing my hormonal, biological, and personal desires.

my point in these personal anecdotes is the highlight that, although this is a fascinating sociological and psychological discussion, in the end, it is STILL just telling women "you have a vagina, so this is the way to be"...

(no subject)

Date: 2005-10-26 09:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ewigweibliche.livejournal.com
I diagree to your last statement. I don't think a discussion of this phenomenon, or even disapproving of it, is telling women how to behave. But I do think that media/patriarchy/status quo likes to "empower" women in ways that are safe for them and reinforce the dominant mode of "feminism." Women playing up hyper-sexiness, while it may be authentic to some women (I know I love to show some boob and seduce my lover with all of the stereotypical "femnine wiles" from time to time), images consistently portray women as body parts and sexual objects. It takes a lot, A LOT, of work to go against this tide of images that bombard women from the time they're born. I don't believe that all or even most women are authentically choosing to be sexy in our modern ways. I think we are trained - both to act these parts, and also to appreciate them.

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] robotar.livejournal.com - Date: 2005-10-26 10:38 pm (UTC) - Expand

thumbs up

From: [identity profile] jemly.livejournal.com - Date: 2005-10-27 01:23 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2005-10-27 03:40 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] jemly.livejournal.com - Date: 2005-10-27 01:22 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

Date: 2005-10-26 10:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] robotar.livejournal.com
Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree with this.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-10-27 12:37 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nato-dakke.livejournal.com
Slate has a double review/ intelligent exchange on levy's book and "Pornified" (basicly the "failed men" side of the same problem) that might be an enjoyable read if you've got the time.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2126570/entry/2126575/?nav=ais

I think you're on the mark here for a change. Usually when you write about women and feminism here, you tend to be patronizing and limiting (in the name of cute, perhaps). It's good to see you writing against some kind of "bad feminism" instead of for dubiously good femininity.
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