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[personal profile] imomus
Hisae and I spent a couple of hours last night at Spaworld, a supersento near Osaka zoo. It's a kind of theme park of bathing, a succession of themed rooms in various national styles. Imagine the British Museum filled with water and naked people dangling small orange "modesty towels" in front of their genitals as they wade from exhibit to exhibit, room to room, water gadget to water gimmick. I thought I'd try to add an objective element to the subjective impression of the bliss of a visit to Spaworld by breaking it down to you in percentages.

1. Percentage of the day this spa is open: 100% (it's 24/7).

2. Percentage the 1000 yen entrance fee ($8.60 or €7.10) goes up by if you bathe after midnight: 100%.

3. Percentage of bathers on the men's floor who were gaijin while I was bathing: 3%.

4. Percentage of bathers on the men's floor who were little girls while I was bathing: 10%.

5. Little girls (aged 5-8, bathing with their fathers) are 50% sexy with their clothes on, but only 20% sexy naked, when they exactly resemble little boys without penises.

6. Percentage of time I spent in each bath: 12% in steam room and sauna, 21% outside in rotenburo area, enjoying the cool rain, 6% in a wooden barrel, 15% in a traditional Japanese cedar bath, 18% in the Arabic room, 19% in Indian jacuzzi room, 7% in Balinese flower bath, 2% in Egyptian sunbed room.

7. Percentage of bathers on women's floor who had navel piercings, according to Hisae: 15%.

8. Percentage of bathers on women's floor who were Gothic Lolitas, according to Hisae: 1%.

9. Percentage of bathers on women's floor who were Chinese or Koreans: 16%.

10. Percentage of "red wine bath" which was red in colour: 0% (it was, in fact, green).

11. Percentage I used to feel anxious about appearing naked in public: 87%. Percentage I now feel anxious about it: 5%.

12. Percentage of the time I found myself checking men's penises before their faces as they approached: 85%.

13. Percentage you feel clean after an hour in the baths at Spaworld: 110%.

14. Percentage of alcohol in the nama biru you sip with your fried isakaya meal at the base of the Osaka Tower afterwards: 5%.

15. Percentage of bodily well-being you experience at this point: 99.9%.

Re: offending people

Date: 2006-01-05 05:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alandriscoll.livejournal.com
That logic doesn't make sense. Publishing a picture of a dog isn't the same as saying it's great when people get attacked by dogs.

Discussion of absolutely any subject is fine, but of course the content of that discussion might still lead to offensive opinions.

Re: offending people

Date: 2006-01-05 08:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] screed.livejournal.com
Did someone say it was great when chlidren get molested by adults?

Re: offending people

Date: 2006-01-05 08:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alandriscoll.livejournal.com
No, but the idea of adults being sexually attracted to children was condoned as being perfectly acceptable.

Re: offending people

Date: 2006-01-05 09:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] screed.livejournal.com
Right, but it was said in context of "as long as they never do it, that dogs want to bite is perfectly acceptable to me". Momus can defend his own opinions on the cultural and societal attitudes towards childhood, but I don't think it was said in a lascivious way; it seemed more like a fake-statistic given as a Harpers List-style setup for the punchline, cf. "I just came from a bathhouse full of them, and I have to say little girls have a more sexualized appearance when society dresses them up as little women than they are actually naked."

Re: offending people

Date: 2006-01-05 10:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alandriscoll.livejournal.com
A little woman is a child. Unless this somehow relates to a midget fetish, I must have missed the meeting when it was decided that sexual attraction to children was the norm and should be heartily endorsed.

Re: offending people

Date: 2006-01-06 04:49 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
As usual in internet debates, it turns into the difference between "glass half empty" and "glass half full". You say "a little woman is a child" and I say "a child is a little woman".

Re: offending people

Date: 2006-01-06 05:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
By the way, it seems a bit odd that your argument is structured around the need to avoid offending victims of child abuse by not reviving their trauma, and yet on your website (http://www.alandriscoll.co.uk/) there's an mp3 of you doing a stand-up act of your own material which includes the joke "See you at the Edinburgh Festival... I'm not going there as a comedian, but as a suicide bomber". I'd say that's way more insensitive to victims (I have friends of friends who were killed on 7/7 by a suicide bomber) than saying that children can be sexy.

Re: offending people

Date: 2006-01-06 07:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alandriscoll.livejournal.com
It clearly states that the performance was from February 2004.

Re: offending people

Date: 2006-01-06 07:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alandriscoll.livejournal.com
And as with the glass example, they both amount to exactly the same thing.

Re: offending people

Date: 2006-01-06 05:03 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
He didnt say that either tho, he didnt say that he had a sexual attraction to them, he just said that they were in a stage of developing sexiness, partly just to start this debate perhaps

Re: offending people

Date: 2006-01-06 08:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alandriscoll.livejournal.com
To be fair, he pretty much just said "They were sexy", which is vaguer than both of your inferred quotes.

Re: offending people

Date: 2006-01-06 09:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
English people are increasingly strange to me! You actually think it's a moral virtue not to see any beauty in something. And you think that beauty is a slippery slope that leads to crime!

Re: offending people

Date: 2006-01-06 09:22 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alandriscoll.livejournal.com
No, I think that "beautiful" is a different concept to "sexy".

Re: offending people

Date: 2006-01-06 09:24 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
Well, I don't. But when I say "the little girls in the sento are 20% sexy", I don't mean I'm sitting there with an erection and a plan to enter their bedrooms.

Re: offending people

Date: 2006-01-06 09:37 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alandriscoll.livejournal.com
I find not being able to differentiate between beauty and sexiness strange (not that they can't co-exist). And I don't suspect you of any "plans", but your unfortunate phrasing when referring to nude five year-olds does uncomfortably imply some sort of similar desire, even if you're not the sort to act on it.

Re: offending people

Date: 2006-01-06 06:23 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Oh No!!!

It's the thought police!

Seriously: If we all thought like you, we'd all be in prison, including you and your suicide bombing plans.

This reminds me of the FBI arresting four 10 year old Pakistani boys in Disney Land, on the pretext that they were filming garbage cans and different thing in the park, and so "must have been planning to plant a bomb."

Re: offending people

Date: 2006-01-06 06:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alandriscoll.livejournal.com
It's political correctness gone mad. You couldn't make it up.

Re: offending people

Date: 2006-01-06 07:15 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Anyhow, I think that your linguistic divisions of emotions or passions towards "beautiful" and "sexy" are a bit too static to be taken seriously. You have to look at it from a less literal perspective; appreciating something for its appearance is far removed from getting physically involved.

What I and (I think) Momus, mean, is merely an aesthetic appreciaton of "sexy," which does not involve carnal desire. You cannot deny that children's fashion is geared toward making at least girls appear more beautiful or sexy. By all means, lets all walk around naked; that would surely dissolve perversion and all false ideals of beauty, as well as the porn industry.

If you are like a robot which has no emotions toward its surroundings, then you are not fully human; i.e. you're lying. If you have a problem with others having passions, feelings, and emotions, then maybe you should dedicate your body to science and let us live our passionate lives without you. There are enough laws restraining "freedom of speech" and "freedom of action," -- and as a moral being I agree with most of them -- but at least let us have some "freedom of thought;" it's slowly being taken away, too.

Re: offending people

Date: 2006-01-07 09:57 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Both of my inferred quotes? I mirrored what Momus said he meant by 50% sexy and as to saying partly just to start this debate I did say that was my own thought, look up the word perhaps

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