Why I am not a Satanist
Oct. 8th, 2005 11:24 am
From time to time, Satanists and Occultists seem to take an interest in me. Perhaps it's because my bid to chart a single in the UK Top 40, back in 1989, was called "The Hairstyle of the Devil". Perhaps it's because Momus is the name of a non-Christian deity, or because I sing about "the old religion", or because my name appears on the Famous Non-Believers List. Or perhaps it's simply because my name is Nick and I'm old.Well, I have to thank someone called Jason Louv for sending me the book he edits, Generation Hex (Disinformation), an attempt to connect alternative culture to the occult. "Magic is what sprouts up between the cracks in the modern world and its ideologies," Jason writes in his introduction, 'Towards an Ultraculture'. "Its branches and leaves curl forth from underneath the halls of church and state, from our television and computer screens, from every bookstore and tabloid rack—if we know how to look." Jason also included a DVD of "Disinformation: The Complete Series", the TV show made by the Disinformation Company and broadcast by Channel 4 in the UK, "which Richard Metzger wanted you to have". Metzger is the co-founder of Disinformation, the missing link between Adbusters and Beelzebub, between No Logo and Belial. On the cover of the video he lifts a quizzical eyebrow, like someone convinced of his own enormous charismatic power. On his blog, though, he seems like a fairly normal yuppie; he's just discovered reggae dub, for instance, and is "buying several new CDs a week and generally driving my girlfriend to utter despair".
I found the shows pretty silly, to be honest, rather like long-forgotten Channel 4 tabloid TV shows Rapido and Eurotrash, with some kind of diluted post-Seattle-Satanism replacing frenchness as the structuring gimmick. But actually, it would probably be more subversive, in today's America, to come across as a Frenchman than to drop vague hints that you worship where it smells of sulphur.
Actually, the hints aren't all that vague. "Things you'll never see on television!" boasts the DVD sleeve, then lists "Satanism!" as the very first item. There's a familiar cast of alternatives and iconoclasts featured in interviews and the conference clips on Disc 2: Genesis P. Orridge, Douglas Rushkoff, Robert Anton Wilson, Marilyn Manson, Kenneth Anger, Grant Morrison. Now, some of these people are friends of friends, or people I've heard are admirers of my work. But it's somewhat disturbing to see them all collected together to vaunt irrationality as a solution to the world's problems, and Satan as a binding force for the subculture. It's as disappointing, in its way, as reading biographies of David Bowie and realising that cocaine and LA occultists really did make him a bit insane for a couple of years in the 70s (he saw Satan's face in his swimming pool, believed witches were collecting his sperm, and was terrified to see a demonic white hand around his wife's waist in an old photo).
It's always disappointing when you hear how credulous and irrational your heroes are. For instance, I've spoken in this blog before about a certain admiration for Genesis P. Orridge. The man has style, and has made some great work, so he's welcome to read Aleister Crowley books all day if he likes. But I was a bit disappointed to hear—from a member of a famous goth band, as it happens—that Gen, on the night of the fire at Rick Rubin's house in which he fell from a window and was later awarded a million dollars for his injuries, had been burying voodoo dolls in the ground. Jesus, was all that satanic abuse stuff that made him leave Britain true, then? You know, how... silly.
Yes, Satanism just strikes me as... silly, I'm afraid. Why abandon the idiocy of God if you're not also going to abandon the idiocy of The Devil? Sure, I love mystery, and I love "the old religion", the Greek pantheon, the Celts, Shinto, all that stuff. What I hate, though, is the way Christianity vilified fertility religions and made them "evil". You can still see the result of that in the way various speakers at the Disinfo conference, included on the DVD, have a certain "evil glow" in their eyes, or believe they possess an "evil charisma". America's idiotic binary culture forces you to be good or evil, with or against, constructive or destructive. The result is that alternative culture people internalize the stigma of otherness, becoming Fashion Goths and Slayer fans.
Just as the principal danger of anti-capitalism is that it makes you think like a capitalist, so the principal danger of Satanism is that it makes you think like a Christian. I am very, very evil, you think. Well, no you're not. If Christianity is silly, just walk away from it, and from its stigmas too; its dark underbelly, its Satanism. I mean, I'm all for people like Rushkoff reviving ethics and comparing the early internet to the Talmud. Interesting metaphor. And I must say Robert Anton Wilson comes across in his clip like a sweetie, an old Silenus or Pan type. But—well, here comes the inevitable Japan bit—I'm really so over this Western demonization of paganism, this I'm-so-evil thing. Shinto in Japan is a quiet, gentle, mainstream influence, and you can embrace its fertility messages, its nature messages, and its animism messages without having to become an outsider, or waggle your eyebrows like a second-rate magician practicing in front of the mirror. In other words, what in the West would be an alternative culture which you'd have to be a deviant or a nut or an outsider to embrace is, in Japan, something central which you can conform towards. I dislike Satanism for aesthetic reasons too. Occult sections in bookstores are usually magnets for the spottiest, stupidest, most badly-dressed people. Occultist websites are appalling cautionary tales, evidence that, whatever else he does, Satan makes you commit every graphic design sin known to man. But I particularly resist precisely this thing that Jason Louv is advocating in Generation Hex, the stringing together of Satanism and alternative culture. I resist it because it's just fucking boring to see the counterculture summed up with a skull. But also because alternative culture has some important work to do, work it needs rationality and clear-headedness to carry through, and work which it needs to believe in its own ethical goodness to bring to mainstream acceptance. Wouldn't it be terrible if everyone, for instance, who thought there were other shibboleths than endless economic growth, all turned out to go to secret meetings and make secret signs to each other and think they were "evil"? Wouldn't it be a bit of a blow to the open source software movement, for instance, if you could say of its hobbit-like proponents, as these Satanist kids josh about Jason Louv, "Jason Louv drinks with nobody but the devil, I tell you! Satan mixes his cocktails! A horned beast with a dark and terrifying cock stirs his vodka martini and a putrid she-devil with monkeys for tits pours his lager! No man on earth dare sip from the same cup!" I mean, that wouldn't just be disinformation and defamation, it would be something much worse: distraction.
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Date: 2005-10-08 09:47 am (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2005-10-08 10:37 am (UTC)"Your family had roots in the Plymouth Brethren, a heavily evangelical, Puritan sect. And I looked it up and it turns out the other luminary to come out of that group was the magician Aleister Crowley, who was raised in it in the late 19th century. And it may seem an odd comparison, but the two of you seem to have quite a bit in common–global bohemianism, a certain anti-Puritan occupation with sex as politics (he wrote homosexual porno poems in "White Stains," you wrote "Coming in a Girl's Mouth"), a preoccupation with transcending "socialisation processes" as you mentioned above, certainly shamanism and construction of multiple selves for fun & art's sake. I wonder if this is a parallel you've ever drawn."
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Date: 2005-10-08 11:47 am (UTC)"It was Occult study that first led me to major in Marketing. The way I see it, it's just magick by another name... I think that Marketing is simply the legitimate face of occult study - the last socially acceptable way to understand magic theory. If more occultists got involved in it, I think there would be a lot of growth in the way we interpret, present, and understand ideas." --Jedediah Walls, Chicago AdBusters
(from an Amazon customer review (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1932857206/002-8499063-7203227?v=glance) of Jason's book.)
(no subject)
Date: 2005-10-08 03:17 pm (UTC)I have mixed thoughts on this all, myself. I do think that, perhaps, you've misunderstood the essence of what they're trying to get across. That's not to say that everything they say is completely relevant, but the point of viral/linguistic/memetic warfare (which is, of course, why Rushkoff comes into play here) as being a key component in cultural war, is to me, very important.
I do tend to think that sometimes things are just "fashionable" and don't particularly care for it because it's trying to hard, but then again, I look at Index magazine or somesuch thing and feel disgusted by all the "glamour" and pseudo-intellentsia. Yet this is the very same culture you seem to be floating around in.
Funny how we both see through a keyhole and find the other one's culture, or at least part of their culture, mere veneer, a sheen of gimmick and play, with no serious context behind it. Maybe if we look deeper, you at this, and I at your work and clique's work, we shall find something worthy of more than mere disgust? N'est pas?
Adbusters and Satan
From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2006-03-06 02:50 am (UTC) - Expand(no subject)
Date: 2005-10-08 11:51 am (UTC)Someone here mentioned that those in the Church of Satan don't actually believe in Satan. It's true that the 'church' set up by LaVey are basically atheist with a touch of Vincent Price. Houellebecq writes about this in Atomised, too. Satanists, he says, are merely atheists. All the Satan nonsense is used to recruit people in a dramatic way and to decrease their inhibitions. At the centre of it the secret is to do with acts of nihilism such as Dosotoyevsky dealt with in Crime and Punishment.
I see 'mainstream' atheism and Satanism equally as 'slave religions' - as part of Christianity. All very depressing.
By the way, a piece of gossip, dear. I was at a kind of talk given on Aleister Crowley and Charles Shaar Murray was there with his partner, and they both caused a bit of a scene because someone was smoking in the room (upstairs in a pub, as it happened). Hilarious. Very black magic, I'm sure.
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Date: 2005-10-08 01:18 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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From:naci___güller____atatürk@hotmail.com
From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2006-05-27 10:32 am (UTC) - Expand(no subject)
Date: 2005-10-08 12:39 pm (UTC)And satanism seems to be an ingracious and childish attempt to escape the pressures of christian dogmatism by those, who had encountered it. You know, like beating up a chair that you accidentally fell over. Tasteless.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-10-08 12:55 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-10-08 02:35 pm (UTC)I also want the original concert ticket for the 1972 Emerson, Lake & Palmer tour in Germany.
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Date: 2005-10-08 03:04 pm (UTC)You Should watch the disinfo interviews, and not the series. The series was crap, but I thought the interviews were pretty good. Especially the ones with Robert Anton Wilson. Both Robert Anton Wilson and Grant Morrison would be particularly insulted to hear you lump them together with "Satanists." Neither of their views, or the massive amount of literature that both Wilson and Morrison put out, have anything at all to do with a supposed "satanic philosophy."
(no subject)
Date: 2005-10-08 03:10 pm (UTC)Gide
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From:one more thing
Date: 2005-10-08 03:09 pm (UTC)And it sounds ALOT like a lyric of yours:
"Because being of one mind is a capital crime. I will pack and unpack at the drop of a hat."
some witches like rainbows
Date: 2005-10-08 03:12 pm (UTC)The flip side of all this is practical. You should watch Grant Morrison's lecture on the disinfo DVD if you have not already. His point, echoed by many is entirly practical. If it works, magic is a useful tool for effecting change. Even if the only way it works is in harnassing your will to effect change in your life. If the tool works, why throw it out of the toolshed? Some of the more interesting stuff borrows from situationist theory (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/alison.pollard/thedrift.htm) and can be a quite useful symbolic structure to affect change.
Besides, a nice dose of non-rationality is often a good thing.
Re: some witches like rainbows
Date: 2005-10-08 03:22 pm (UTC)Re: some witches like rainbows
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From:circles in spirals
Date: 2005-10-08 03:23 pm (UTC)so the cheque's not in the post to anyone whose superstition
or "pantheistic new-age religion" has been assailed, then? (£1,797)
Re: circles in spirals
Date: 2005-10-08 03:32 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-10-08 03:37 pm (UTC)So if a J-rock/pop band is "worser" than Marilyn Manson, and still more plastic and marketed, what is much worse (and plastic and marketed) than "evilness"?
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Date: 2005-10-08 03:40 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-10-08 03:46 pm (UTC)internet > dungeons and dragons > conspiracy theory > 20 foot lizards > goth > satanism > sex, drugs, rock 'n' roll > marketing > internet
and I'm so bored with it.
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From:sorcerer's apprentice
Date: 2005-10-08 05:26 pm (UTC)Re: sorcerer's apprentice
Date: 2005-10-08 05:40 pm (UTC)"The core notion in economic analysis is the notion of value added — the difference between the monetary value of inputs and outputs. There are questions about how much those monetary values give you the true value of a product or service, which gets into the whole area of social benefit analysis, but economists try to avoid those questions if they can. There is no concept in economics that there exists some intrinsic value that is different to the value added. This was an important part of the history of the subject. Your value from an economic point of view is what people are prepared to pay for what you provide."
Re: sorcerer's apprentice
From:commercial counterculture
Date: 2005-10-08 05:34 pm (UTC)It's like indie rock. In a great segment in the book The Rebel Sell, they quote Hal Niedzvecki writing about some unlistenable rubbish noise band - at first he praises them for being so confrontational, so epate-les-bourgeois - and ends up realizing that they simply suck. In the context of this discussion, it's like a little kid deciding to do the exact opposite of what they're told, out of wilfulness and spite, not because they have any constructively different ideas about what to do.
I'm concerned that someone from Adbusters would believe in such nonsense. But then again - as also effectively pointed out in The Rebel Sell - Adbusters couldn't exist outside of a capitalist commercial structure and in fact is such a part of that culture, that it can only frame its opposition to it in the terms of that culture itself - rather than proposing something better, they become exactly what the Satanist section at the bookstore does - attract the sheeplike guilty bourgeois, those in search of a different dogma, but a dogma nonetheless.
Re: commercial counterculture
Date: 2005-10-08 10:16 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-10-08 05:44 pm (UTC)though apparently their worship consists mostly of getting drunk (according to a friend of mine who used to be very into that)
the current high priest is Hilmar Örn Hilmarsson, a film composer who used to be in Psychic TV
(no subject)
Date: 2005-10-08 06:09 pm (UTC)My father has the distinctly odious chore of being a liberal minister in his particularly Republican corner of America. He tries to preach a brand of Christianity that, politically, would be called progressive, and Dennis Hastert is his representative in Congress. Almost every time I see him, we discuss religion and politics, and the particularly dangerous confluence of the two in this country. Inevitably, we always end up at the same point, over and over and over again: the reason the Democrats can't win is because the agenda of both parties has been determined by the right wing. Homosexuality is a fairly prevalent social issue here, mainly because the Christian Right has decided to make it one. My father's advocacy for gay rights, though, is fairly irrelevant. The Bible makes reference to homosexuality, at most, less than ten times. However, it makes reference to the evil of greed over 3,000 times. Human beings are dying all over the globe because of the unchecked greed that is actually encouraged on a mass scale by the Christian Right, and the Christian Left is trying to recruit members by saying that the passages about gays are the ones God didn't really mean. We could argue about the nuances of civil unions versus gay marriage, or we could try to change the fact that the vast majority of people in Africa are starving to death, infected by AIDS, fearing death at the hands of genocidal maniacs, or any combination thereof.
I don't consider myself a Christian, and I don't particularly give a shit what an Israeli peasant had to say about sodomy 2000 years ago. Gays are treated like crap in a lot of places here, and I think it's a load of crap. There's no reason they shouldn't be accepted and given full marriage rights. HOWEVER. There are people in my very own beloved city, suffering and dying of diseases that could easily be cured, and I don't think that should continue. Just because the Republicans spend all their time bitching about sodomy doesn't mean I need to spend all my time saying how awesome sodomy is. I'd rather buy a sandwich for that guy shaking a cup at everyone who walks into Taco Bell.
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Date: 2005-10-08 06:16 pm (UTC)& also, i would add that while i understand your feelings about skulls, sometimes skulls can be nice as well! like in this new piece i did.
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Date: 2005-10-08 06:17 pm (UTC)(no subject)
From:act his age...
Date: 2005-10-08 06:24 pm (UTC)i'm sure olamm is a big slayer fan.
Re: act his age...
Date: 2005-10-08 06:58 pm (UTC)Re: act his age...
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Date: 2005-10-08 07:00 pm (UTC)Thank goodness I'm not the only one. While I never took an interest in what we Americans call "occultism" (very nasty, demon worship, animal sacrifice, and all that sort of messy business), I did briefly check out other religious options, and most of the "satanists" and "pagans" I met (the ones who travel in packs anyway) seemed like unattractive people (whether internally or externally... usually internally) who used that label to give themselves some sort of social anti-status, get lots of sex from sub-par women with low self-esteem, and free drugs. I just didn't understand why anybody had to join a club for that. *shrug*
Blinking skulls & black wholf t-shirts and...
Date: 2005-10-08 07:51 pm (UTC)They didn't need Adbusters or Seattle '99 or Indymedia or indie rock or W or the Daily Show to convince them that sound ethics and the pursuit of justice (and not in some bleating Superman sense) could make for a healthier world, whether you're calling that magic or just the shit you do every day.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-10-08 08:52 pm (UTC)America's idiotic binary culture forces you to be good or evil, with or against, constructive or destructive. The result is that alternative culture people internalize the stigma of otherness, becoming Fashion Goths and Slayer fans.
These are feelings exactly.
I must correct one misconception that you have: Satanism and the Occult are two separate things. Pop satanists can't tell the difference (and bookstores lump them into the same "New Age" section - which is also a different thing altogether), but as an intellectual (of sorts) affected with "the old religion", you certainly should know better.
A lot of occult practice is composed of what were once considered scientific disciplines; disciplines which cannot be disproved and yet have been discarded by science because they cannot be "objectively proved". For instance, it is scientifically impossible, by current standards and understanding, to prove or disprove something as ambiguous and subjective as, say, tarot. Some occult disciplines have recently been re-investigated, such as theories involving etheric fields, colored light therapy and the effects of various minerals on biological magnetic impulses/fields. Fascinating stuff. One could probably write an album themed around the idea that age-old occult teachings are now "cuting edge science"! Remember that ancient texts and pagan holy sites described the planets (and, in some instances, even their precise orbits) of our solar system long before science could "prove" their existence.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-10-08 11:51 pm (UTC)The definition of occult (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=occult) is that which is hidden or other, the mysteries of life. Something that I know for a fact Mr. Momus is interested in investigating via his writing and music.
disciplines which cannot be disproved and yet have been discarded by science because they cannot be "objectively proved"
As an agnostic, I think this is one of the greatest faults of dualistic dogma. Time and time again science has found its theories completely reorganized due to its realizing that it wasn't looking at the whole picture, whether by missing the forest (the infinite/universal) or the trees (the infinitesimal/quantum).
Not to discount science, it is the only thing we have at the moment to measure anything, but in my humble opinion, part of modern rational thought depends on knowing that not all can be known.
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Date: 2005-10-08 08:57 pm (UTC)As for Shinto being a "quiet, gentle, mainstream influence", I by no means entirely disagree with this, but I still think your understanding of Shinto in relation to Buddhism, Confucianism and folk/local religion in Japan, never mind the rest of it, really does need a bit of work! Since the rise of nativist schools in Japan during the 18th century, Shinto (whatever that is...) has been most certainly been something other than just quiet and gentle. To be frank, your stance on Shinto seems both perilously underinformed and verging on a revisionism centred entirely outside of historical event and both national and local experience.
I've still got a spare review copy of Shinto in History: Ways of the Kami (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/082482363X/102-2710795-2030545?v=glance&vi=reviews) you'd be very welcome to if you let me know your more recent address. I might also suggest Religions of Japan in Practice (http://www.pupress.princeton.edu/titles/6649.html) as a reasonably priced and readily available reader for a look at religion at Japan in toto across the ages. You cannot entirely separate out Shinto anymore than you can turn tamagoyaki back into yolk and white. Well, unless you're some sort of wizard...
(no subject)
Date: 2005-10-08 09:16 pm (UTC)