imomus: (Default)
[personal profile] imomus
You just need to walk around a good ethnographic museum to see what a big and varied place the world used to be, how many fundamentally different styles used to co-exist quite oblivious—or even hostile—to each other. You leave with the feeling that there were more basic forms in the world than there are now, more different ways of doing things, and that each way of doing things integrated a distinct way of seeing things.

Repressive inclusiveness is a close cousin to something I've talked about often in these pages: pompous universalism. They're cousins because they're both sworn enemies of difference, diversity and particularity. The people most guilty of repressive inclusiveness are politicians and mass-producing manufacturers. You see it when centrist liberal democratic politicians, desperate to please all the people all the time, work hand-in-glove with commercial interests practicing "synergy", streamlining their operations by merging with rivals, getting bigger, simplifying their structures as well as their product ranges. Repressive inclusiveness is a feature of the age of synergy, which is the new name we've given monopoly capitalism.

Repressive inclusiveness poses as something progressive. All ages, 8 to 80! One size fits all! Fun for all the family! Guaranteed to please! The downside is obvious: when you claim that one size fits all, you're not looking at all the different shapes of people there are out there. When you say that everyone's sure to enjoy something, you're disregarding the fact that one man's meat might be another's poison. When you sell off-the-peg clothes, you put the tailor and his tape measure out of business. And when you "practice synergies", merge with rivals, cut corners, focus on core markets rather than niches and minorities, take over the market, your one-size-fits-all philosophy becomes a form of repression. The mountain no longer comes to Mohammed, Mohammed must come to the mountain. But hey, it doesn't matter who Mohammed is, you aren't looking at him at all, his race, colour or creed no longer interests you. Your one-size-fits-all philosophy is really a fear and hatred of difference, but it poses as inclusiveness and lack of discrimination. You concentrate on the mere opportunity of all to buy the single product you're proposing, rather than trying to build a complex variegated market (or political spectrum) which might represent different tastes and needs. Your failure to discriminate is not high-minded, it's an aspect of your insensitivity to the actually-existing diversity out there. Your corporate structure no longer allows you to make risky little products for pesky little markets. Suddenly necessities become luxuries the system can't afford, but we're compensated by the fact that the one thing we are offered is proposed, inevitably, as a luxury accessible to all.

Inclusive exclusivity. Our equality of opportunity (but don't get too excited, the opportunity is just to choose the one product on offer) explains the paradox that products are often presented as inclusive and exclusive at the same time. Sure, there's only one product being offered, but that's because it's the best, top of the range. But thanks to inclusive exclusivity, now everyone has a chance to taste the best. The same goes for political systems. Western democracy may be in crisis, but we want everyone all over the world to have the chance to try it because it's "the only game in town". And so we bomb people and impose it. Of course, if we were really interested in inclusive exclusivity we'd probably approve of the fake Chanel t-shirts and Louis Vuitton handbags being sold on the streets of China, but it seems we want China to police its intellectual property rights so that the money keeps flowing in to Chanel and Vuitton instead of poor people.

There are periods of hope when something comes along which represents "the other". I'm thinking of the early days of BBC 2, or the early days of Virgin Records. Suddenly the world is full of flying teapots: weird and wonderful bands like Gong and Faust, TV shows featuring intellectuals, pythons, and the tuareg. But repressive inclusiveness invariably returns within about five years, as market logic reasserts itself (even on public service TV) and the new channels start proposing "something for everyone" instead of something for, well, someone in particular. Someone more intelligent than average, or more curious than average.

Moronic irony: A clever (but cynical) manufacturer with only one product to offer encodes it so that it means different things in different markets. As Jonaton Yeah, the cynical editor of Sugar Ape magazine, put it: "Stupid people think it's cool, clever people think it's a joke... still cool." And so the universal, inclusive product is likely to cater to the lowest common denominator, but contain some hidden encoded wit for the smart. The "pompously universal" product is a prole product (jeans, say) with a smidgen of snob appeal (special stitching) for connoisseurs, or a child product with some witty asides for the parents (the Simpsons).

At the moment it's a kind of thoughtcrime to imagine a world where repressive inclusiveness is replaced by its opposite, liberating exclusiveness. Imagine a world where politicians didn't say "We all have the same interests, let's look at what we have in common" but "They (Africans, Iraqis, whoever) have different interests from us, let's try to address those." The risk of admitting difference is conflict, but the risk of not admitting it is its silent erasure.

There are more people alive now than there have ever been, but fewer styles, fewer ways of being, fewer real differences. It makes you wonder what tomorrow's museums will contain. A pair of jeans, a car that looks a bit like a BMW, the layout of a parliament building... and a huge list of the languages, tribes and species we erased or merged into invisibility?

(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-13 09:10 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
But thanks to inclusive exclusivity, now everyone has a chance to taste the best.

At least in the past, the movement of once exclusive items into inclusivity was the root of the fashion cycle. Everyone buys something promised to be "exclusive" and then looks around and notices that everyone else owns it. But at that point, the clever companies are poised to present a new "exclusive" product, even better than the last one. And so on and so on... The idea is that the capitalists make money on selling the idea of exclusivity to an inclusive market. Same with Bush: everyone is the same and I give you all these special tax-cuts!

As for the moronic irony, companies make a lot more money making large-scale mass projects than a huge product line of special, diverse items, so they are going to naturally congregate towards one "semi-ironic lowest common denominator" product than a bunch of individually catered ones. This new "mass customization" idea is intriguing, but no matter the size, color, material, or size, you are still buying a pair of Levi's. My favorite fashion "brand" in Tokyo is my custom tailor.

Marxy

(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-13 09:16 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Not as good as in the olden days, eh?

Obviously globalisation is going to lead to a certain cultural harmonisation, the extinction of languages etc., etc. That's well under way - when did Gaelic stop being the most commonly used language in Ireland? 1840s or something? When did the last native Cornish speaker die?

On the other hand, that globalised culture is coming increasingly "nichified". Gone are the days when 25 million people in the UK could all be watching Morecambe & Wise at the same time. Similarly the Internet is creating all sorts of different media niches, including this blog. Culture has become globalised, but that globalised culture is far less monolithic than the old cultural formats. And yes, trawl an anthropology museum and you'll find that there were 700 different languages in Australia before the arrival of the British or whatever. There was "extra-cultural" variation, but very little "intra-cultural" variation, with extremely tight belief systems, social systems, art, clothing, diet etc. We have as much or more diversity than we ever had, only it's happening within a culture rather than between them.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-13 01:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] godfreygoode.livejournal.com
The real irony here is someone who is sympathetic to communism/socialism, decrying the idea of having only one product to choose from.

The fact is that in the 1920s you could select from a handful of schmaltzy piano songbooks/sheet musics. Now there are 8,000 albums coming out a year and I can listen to Britney, Momus, Christian Rock, or Indian Gamelan. There are 90 more cable channels than there were 10 years ago. None of this is pointing to some supposed homogenization.

I understand why someone would fear that the spread of capitalism and democracy would lead to the distillation of native cultures. After all, it would probably lead to an end of primitively-clothed natives in huts with straw thatch roofs who have to use the toilet in a ditch in between their house and their neighbor's. To make sure that these people maintain that way of life is a noble cause, indeed.

But in all seriousness, capitalism is the great hope to end war and conflict. A country is less likely to attack a neighboring country if they're trading with each other and it would mean a great loss of wealth. The only hostile countries in the world are the ones with closed borders.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-13 02:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] becki1111.livejournal.com
I think the relationship betwteen the US and Saudia Arabia proves your last paragraph false. Conflict across borders may subside in the wake of capitalism, but human rights violations and legitimate ties to terrorism may be overlooked for the sake of a good business relationship...especially when oil is involved.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-13 04:31 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
And when one country favours another specific country perhaps it stops a certain type of trade with one of its other relations and .....

(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-13 10:34 pm (UTC)
aberrantangels: (the Matrix has you)
From: [personal profile] aberrantangels
I understand why someone would fear that the spread of capitalism and democracy would lead to the distillation of native cultures. After all, it would probably lead to an end of primitively-clothed natives in huts with straw thatch roofs who have to use the toilet in a ditch in between their house and their neighbor's. To make sure that these people maintain that way of life is a noble cause, indeed.

Y'know, when [livejournal.com profile] cerulicante made posts like these, setting up a strawman version of our host to attack, he at least had the excuse of being a blithering thumbhead.

Your excuse (or rather explanation, there being no real excuse), on the other hand, is that you're what Dr. Gene Ray would call "educated stupid" (if he applied that phrase to the Ayn-Rand-said-it-I-believe-it-that-settles-it crowd rather than to those who doubt Nature's Simultaneous 4-Day Rotation Time Cube Harmonic).

dead-on....

Date: 2005-06-13 01:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] becki1111.livejournal.com
"The risk of admitting difference is conflict, but the risk of not admitting it is its silent erasure."

Did you hear about the comments Howard Dean made last week on the Today Show? He started pointing out differences, albeit in a bit of a crude and generalizing manner and BAM! conflict. People were up at arms over it.

The big lie I was taught in secondary school is that America is no longer a melting pot. It is a garden salad...a medley of flavors which when together make something delicious. Besides being one of the lamest metaphors I've heard to this day, it is a complete untruth. Everything you've pointed out in your article is obvious in the States as well...especially the "one size fits all" which (becauase of living in WI which is the obesity capital of the U S of A) has a lot of people walking around in moo moos.

I was in Seattle a week and a half ago for a big conference and one of the things they were talking about was Erasmus Mundus. Are you familiar with this? If not, briefly, it is a new postgraduate program designed for exceptionally bright or diligent students whereby they earn a master's degree by taking their courses in a minimum of two European countries. It sounds great in theory. Different cultures adding to the student's experience of their subject matter, dealing with different modes of pedagogy. But the downside is, in order to attract students and make them feel secure about studying for a degree in two or three distinctly different countries, concessions (or what I consider concessions) had to be made. English will be the language of instruction for these programs. The faculty at universities are slowly or in some cases quickly, switching the language of instruction over to English all together as they see it as the inevitable end of the path the EU and Bologna Accord lead to.

Your theories are already infiltrating educational systems across Europe. The US is already a cemetary of dead languages, I hope the same doesn't happen in Europe.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-13 02:09 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I have to accuse you of never having actually seen the Simpsons.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-13 02:41 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I second this. You throw it around like it's this moderately interesting mass cultural product without realizing its subversive, groundbreaking genius.

Marxy

(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-13 03:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
While I will own up to never having seen Star Trek, ET, The Exorcist, Big Brother, Friends, or a live concert by Oasis, I have seen the Simpsons. I've seen at least, ooh, five episodes. I think I was turned rather against it by the fact that when it started in the UK, it was running alongside Ren and Stimpy, which was subversive genius, while The Simpsons was merely clever. Of course, John K didn't have Rupert Murdoch backing him (or the discipline to meet deadlines), so Ren and Stimpy is now a distant memory, whereas The Simpsons has taken over the world. Nothing fails (to subvert) like success, does it?

(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-13 03:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scola.livejournal.com
I'm not sure what episodes you've seen... but the fact that you describe The Simpsons as a product for children with witty asides for parents indicates that you don't have much of a sense of the show. In the very early days of the show, when Bart Simpson was the most marketable character in the show (and public schools were fretting over kids wearing Bart T-Shirts) there were some episodes that seemed like they might have been steered toward kids a bit. However, the show quickly shifted it's focus from Bart to Homer - the ultimate "ugly american" - and kept it there ever since. As a result, The Simpsons is very much aimed at an adult audience. It's not like a Pixar film where the plot is intended for children, while the characters throw in the occasional joke aimed at adults. Rather, plots in the Simpsons are merely excuses for the show to spray satire at its audience - and a lot of I would consider quite subversive.

As for your assertion that "Nothing fails (to subvert) like success, does it?"... what does that even mean? Because The Simpsons wasn't cancelled like Ren and Stimpy, it's just not subversive enough for you? Considering that you haven't really seen this show enough to have a decent of what it is (and what it isn't), you seem pretty quick to condemn it.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-13 04:15 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I'm afraid you've totally misunderstood Momus's discursive technique, which primarily involves skimming the Internet for factoids which fit with some preconceived argument. Why, he can even turn a Salon piece on some book into three or four tightly argued posts, without ever bothering to read the book he's discussing!

(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-13 04:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
I'm not condemning The Simpsons, in fact I quite like it. But if the Gen Xers raised on it bristle at anything less than a "godlike genius" rating (while failing to muster any comment on the actual themes of this post, repressive inclusiveness and the rest), then I can say that Mr Murdoch's work on Earth is well and truly done. (And yes, I do realise that Mr Burns is a terribly subversive caricature of a Murdoch-like mogul.) I might as well just post "Dear diary, watched The Simpsons. Current mood: depressed. Current music: Foo Fighters."

(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-13 04:36 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Why is it "totally lame"for Americans to write diaries like that and "totally radical" for Japanese to write about their pets?

Marxy

(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-13 04:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
Whoever said diaries about pets were "totally radical"?

I do find myself wondering why people think The Simpsons is "subversive", though. Really, what did it subvert? What traps didn't you fall into that you would otherwise have done, thanks to an episode of The Simpsons? Did you look with deeper disgust at the commercials that punctuate the show? Did you fall into some sort of self-hating reverie and eat cake? Did you look in the mirror, swig on a Bud, and say "D'oh!"

(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-13 05:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] 33mhz.livejournal.com
It does depict most authorities (policemen, the mayor) as relentlessly incompetent and/or corrupt, but that's such a pervasive image that it's become received wisdom that's rarely to never really acted upon.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-13 05:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
Well, exactly. Can we call that "corrosive cynicism" or something?

(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-13 06:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scola.livejournal.com
I think this is a pretty unfair standard by which to judge this show, or any other work that would be commonly considered subversive. Like you, I very much enjoyed the Ren and Stimpy Show... and I agree that that show had a subversive edge to it. However, watching Ren and Stimpy didn't prevent me from falling into "traps", it didn't cause me to ramp up my disgust at television commercials... so by your standard, it really wasn't subversive at all. Unless, for you, the Ren and Stimpy cartoon was some life changing experience that caused you to renounce material goods or have some other lefty epiphany. Didn't strike me that way. If my criteria for determining what is or is not subversive were based on your standards, I can scarcely think of anything that I would consider subversive.

Regarding The Simpsons, I don't think the show is a work of "godlike genius". However, I think it is a show that has retained a large popular audience while gleefully mocking the values and beliefs of (what I imagine must be) a decent chunk of that audience. In other words, it's well executed satire... and while that may not be enough to get everyone to rise up and smash the state, I still don't think it's unreasonable to refer to it as subversive.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-13 06:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
I think of satire as "strategic ambivalence". It's all about mixed feelings, and trying out attitudes in a playful way. But it can break down a considered or principled resistance to things for that very reason. I suppose we should do what Eno once advised, and give in immediately to the things that threaten us rather than wasting emotional energy on them.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-15 06:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] butterflyrobert.livejournal.com
Ren and Stimpy inspired a lot of otherwise "straight" people to walk around in public and talk to strangers' beards and pee on things (etcetera). I'd say that's rather subversive. The Simpsons cleverly points out things with satire that are already fairly obvious. We already know that the average american is obese and has a low iq, corporations are corrupt and kids are bored anough to do anything. Definitely biting and such, but not exactly "subversive".

(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-15 06:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scola.livejournal.com
Ren and Stimpy inspired a lot of otherwise "straight" people to walk around in public and talk to strangers' beards and pee on things (etcetera). I'd say that's rather subversive.

I would certainly agree with this... if I had ever heard of anyone actually doing the things you speak of due to watching Ren and Stimpy. However, since I do not know of any incidents of beard talking/public urination by viewers of the show, I can't say that your contention carries much weight with me.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-15 07:12 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] butterflyrobert.livejournal.com
Ahh that's too bad. I've witnessed both examples and much, much more. All from fans of Ren and Stimpy.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-13 07:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] becki1111.livejournal.com
The comments about the evolution of The Simpsons are true, but I don't think it had evolved into a subversive show, I think it has evolved into one of the sharpest and most intelligent shows on tv. This will sound completely elitist, but to some degree the show is. The subversive elements, or those elements I think people are calling subversive are more like in-jokes for the crowd that "gets it". I think the show works on many layers, but am not convinced it is subversive. I do think it has become brilliant and is not only intellectually challenging (the writing staff are making references that I bet would impress even you) but damn funny.

It is definitely not including children in its target demographic any longer.

Honestly, I think Murdoch isn't watching or he'd have canned it years ago. The show has a definite to-the-left viewpoint.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-13 09:01 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I don't get the "subversive" tag either.

And having a character turn to the camera at the end of a really stupid episode and say "Wasn't this episode stupid?" isn't all that clever, nor does it make it any less stupid.

I think maybe the cleverest thing The Simpsons has done is convince people that it's subversive.

Ren & Stimpy

Date: 2005-06-14 05:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fascicle.livejournal.com

So how is Ren & Stimpy successfully subversive? Of course, you
wouldn't see yourself as Stimpy, so I doubt you're boosting your
immune system by occasional culling your booger collection for
nutritional purposes, but the show was more self-contained and
formulaic than the Simpsons. Smaller cast, smaller focus, and
-ultimately- smaller stories, and Ren ultimately is not capable
of inflicting his rage with sufficient goddam *edge* for it to
hurt. Ren & Stimpy's clearest win is in never succumbing to the
seasonal special or the clip show.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-14 03:50 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cerulicante.livejournal.com
If the Japanese crapped on endangered species and ate them, it'd be world class culture for Momus, I'm sure.* I exaggerate, but I am really proud that Momus went an ENTIRE post without mentioning Japan or how completely inferior everything is to Japan.


Bravo, sir, bravo.






*THIS ONE'S FOR YOU, ABERRANTEYES!

animated

Date: 2005-06-14 05:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fascicle.livejournal.com

you want to call in all the manga/anime addicts for their tuppence-worth?

(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-13 04:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] 33mhz.livejournal.com
Rewatching the first few episodes of season 1, the "child product with some witty asides for the parents" description strikes me as legit, but it's more or less grown with its initial audience. When I lived in a thin-walled apartment complex my first year of college, Sunday at 7, I'd hear that day's episode of the Simpsons drifting in from multiple directions through the walls of the apartment.

EU as repressive inclusiveness.

Date: 2005-06-13 04:51 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Are you re-thinking the meaning of the French and Dutch responses to their EU ratification votes?Is that the implicit message in this post? repressive inclusiveness indeed. Seems some folks wanted a less top-down approach to business, regulations, monopoly capitalism and such, right?

my favorite schpiel by John Cage is how maybe human's greatest ability is the ability to change their own minds....for the mind to turn it's tables on its self.

If you are re-evaluating your feelings on those votes, bravo for you.
Justin

Re: EU as repressive inclusiveness.

Date: 2005-06-13 06:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mcgazz.livejournal.com
I was thinking the same thing. How can anyone criticise the US and not see the same tendancies in the EU. If Momus has never watched Star Trek he won't be aware of the Borg - a race of beings probably constructed as a crude metaphor for Communism (like all the baddies in US sci-fi), but actually a beautiful analogy for the way the US (and now the EU) seem to operate.

Re: EU as repressive inclusiveness.

Date: 2005-06-15 06:35 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] butterflyrobert.livejournal.com
Actually Gene Roddenberry confided in me (some time ago, as he's dead now) that the Borg represented the US as the US is now/then and Star Fleet represented his ideal: utopian socialism. It was certainly his ideal in the original Star Trek (the Borg are from "The Next Generation", the 80's-early 90's series, for those who don't know). Capitalist fascism was everything that Roddenberry thought was wrong with his vision of the ideal and his shows were a representation of that. Look at the Ferengi on Deep Space Nine: the ultimate greedy capitalists, portrayed as short-sighted buffoons.

Subnational Diversity

Date: 2005-06-13 09:27 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Is the above poster positing the EU as a dominant, monolithic force that voters turned on in the name of diversity? It seems to me that supranational blocs can actually be quite useful to smaller communities (Basques, Irish) faced with extinction or irrelevance. In fact in a certain sense the bigger and more monolithic you get the less diversity threatens your identity:
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/wire/sns-ap-ireland-eu-gaelic,1,2212593.story?coll=sns-ap-world-headlines.

So while Spain has a genuine identity problem with the Basques (and Catalonians, and Andalucians, and Gallegos), the problem becomes much less severe when you, in effect, decontextualize the local identities and allow them to define their own terms of existence as communities. This may seem destructive but it actually is potentially very freeing; it's why Jews, Christians, and Moslems were at each other's throats considerably less when the Ottoman Empire had control of what's now Palestine and Israel. As long as you speak enough turkish to fill out your tax return, who cares what language you're praying in?


Can a similar case be made for economic monopoly?
I would say economic hegemony at least creates communities of discontent--that is, by monopolizing discourse it, in effect, forces the creation of opposing discourses within itself (as the poster above has remarked). Smaller, more numerous communities, on the other hand, have little room for opposing discourses and thus represent diversity between, but not within, themselves.

-B

Re: Subnational Diversity

Date: 2005-06-14 04:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
These are good points!

(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-14 03:19 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thetemplekeeper.livejournal.com
Thanks for today's (yesterday's?) post and its replies: I particularly enjoyed the mass attempt to persuade you to watch The Simpsons more often!

Your words, "centrist liberal democratic politicians, desperate to please all the people all the time" helping to create a "one-size-fits-all" culture reminded me strongly of Fahrenheit 451 (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0345342968/ref=pd_sxp_f/002-1633309-4746438?v=glance&s=books) by Ray Bradbury (http://www.raybradbury.com/about.html), the dystopia of which is premised on the idea of respect for minorities being pushed to an extreme form, where, ironically, difference from the norm is punished as potentially threatening and books, being chocka with contradiction and sometimes spleen-ridden diversity of opinion (imagine reading Tertullian (http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/info/tertullian-wace.html)'s Treatise on the Soul (http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/tertullian10.html) and Nietzsche (http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/nietzsche/)'s The Gay Science (http://www.publicappeal.org/library/nietzsche/Nietzsche_the_gay_science/the_gay_science.htm) back-to-back!), are burnt: a sort of "political correctness gone mad" idea, but rather more polished and interesting than what you would find in the Daily Moron (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=315533&in_page_id=1770) or other such 'paper (I bet you never thought there'd be a link to that particular rag on this site). I wonder whether you share Bradbury's analysis of our current (incipient?) cultural malaise - though presumably from a somewhat less Republican standpoint than that he seems to write from in that book.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-14 03:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thetemplekeeper.livejournal.com
(Also, I wonder what your take is on "Great Books" and their supposed unique ability to liberate us from prejudice (http://radicalacademy.com/adlergreatbooks4.htm)... but now, back to the Simpsons (http://www.thesimpsons.com/)!

(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-14 03:57 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
You're talking about consumer choice and such here, but the same can be said for the ideas, philosophies, etc.

I was in Germany for a year way back when, and my closest friend was a true believer in 100% communism, and gave his whole life over to it. He dressed like a weirdo too. He was part and parcel a freak.... except he wasn't. Everyone around him every where took his fashion and belief structure as just another possibility amongst the many many.

Coming from the American South, it was surprising, and oddly offensive. Here was this guy saying the system needed to be razed to the ground, and the establishment was just patting him on the back. His every difference was instantly subsumed into the machine. He couldnt make an "other" of himself if he tried.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-14 08:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] concrete-tiger.livejournal.com
but it seems we want China to police its intellectual property rights so that the money keeps flowing in to Chanel and Vuitton instead of poor people.

Because slave laborers have the capital to manufacture t-shirts and handbags??

a child product with some witty asides for the parents

This would be a better description of Bullwinkle than of The Simpsons. Though one could argue Bullwinkle was an adult program cleverly disguised as a children's cartoon.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-15 12:43 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
i'm no expert entertainment analyst, but I would guess that the reason the Simpsons became so popular was that it somehow included everyone in a very unified way. whereas you could see the difference to "family movies" that throw sexuality in between fart jokes, and tend to exxagerate the duality of childish humor and "mainstream adult" tastes rather than integrating it, i think it is that mix of catoring to the child and the "sophisticated" adult in all of us that makes the Simpsons appealing. the kids love to watch it because it is cute but more mature than Mickey Mouse, while adults love to watich it because it is cleverly and outrageously funny but still somewhat gentle.

basically, my point is i dont think it's "innate" subversiveness, if it really has any, has any relevance whatsoever. but perhaps the subversiveness people see in it is actually in its ability to defy the standards of entertainment by creating something that does not do any pigeon holing of demographics whatsoever, it rather provides a totally unstructured and very unusually friendly experience. it is probably one of the least offensive tv shows i know of, and i think it is that friendliness that may be considered "subversive" in this land of truly exploitive entertinment. you just don't feel "used" when you are watching the Simpsons, which I think put the creators in a very precarious position and yet somehow they were able to get popular enough and therefore lucrative enough before the network's marketting section could find a multiplicity of reasons why this show couldn't make as much as show X and cut it.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-15 06:24 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] butterflyrobert.livejournal.com
I have an example of repressive inclusiveness: Its hard to find new clothes that fit because most clothing is made for people of "average" height and weight. I believe Lord Whimsy was discussing this in his journal.

I agree with Momus that thrifting is a good idea and with Marxy that having a tailor is a good idea. Being tall and thin, I usually have to thrift and visit the tailor.

(no subject)

Date: 2010-02-24 09:52 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lisa-andersen.livejournal.com
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(no subject)

Date: 2010-02-24 03:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lisacudrow.livejournal.com
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