Nipposexual (1)
Jun. 4th, 2005 12:45 pm
This is Nipposexual Weekend. We'll need two days, because this question has shapely legs and will surely run and run. To sprint a bit faster through the subject, I'm going to use a notes format. There are lots of huge issues here, issues of race, gender and cultural identity. But the basic theme can be put very simply: Is it okay to be a nipposexual?Definition: a nipposexual is a non-Japanese person whose primary sexual orientation is towards Japanese people.
Experimental metaphor: a nipposexual is like a homosexual. However, many people who wouldn't dream of persecuting homosexuals because of their chosen sexual orientation do persecute nipposexuals. Well, tease them and scold them, anyway.
Example: Yuki, on her lively blog Kissui, recently told a self-confessed nipposexual to "get lost". "Too bad you don't like your European girls Metsn, but then why is it all of a sudden it's Japanese girls that you're aiming for? People like you should like, eh, live in a deserted island in the middle of the ocean."Hisae's take: "I don't mind if a guy's last ten girlfriends just happen to have been Japanese. But I do mind if he says he only dates Japanese girls. I think it's the way you say it that's offensive."
Funny paradox: It's typically Scottish to leave Scotland and travel the world.
Contradiction: We don't think it's suspicious when people have a gender prejudice ("I tend to date only women.") But we do think it's suspicious when people have a cultural preference ("I tend to date only Japanese").
Biographical tidbit: When I was in "the latency phase" at my Scottish boarding school I had a boyfriend. He was an oriental. It's perfectly possible to imagine someone who doesn't mind what gender their lovers are, as long as they're Japanese.
Another contradiction: In Western ideology we say "everyone is different, individual, unique" but we also say "everyone all over the world is the same deep down". Well, I guess that's not necessarily a contradiction, it's the same idea that's contained in the idea of the "glocal", that local differences and global convergence can co-exist. But it represents a measure of anxiety about the intermediate levels: an anxiety about difference based on race, culture, nationality, body shape, gender and so on. These specificities are unfashionable, downplayed, and even taboo. This makes it very hard to describe a friend without embarrassment: you just can't say "You'll recognise her at the station, she's the fat oriental girl." But you also can't say "You'll recognise her at the station, she's the truly unique individual who, deep down, is just like everybody else in the world."A possible motto: "Miscegenation is not misogyny!"
Shock horror: Wikipedia's miscegenation entry says: "the use of this term is invariably restricted to those who believe that the category race is meaningful when applied to human beings." I would disagree with this. Race may have no basis in scientific fact, but the fact is that it's very much still active as a shaper of human experience, therefore "meaningful". Race is still "a difference that makes a difference". To deny this is to attempt the erasure of enormous amounts of history, of lived experience, of cultural specificity. Wikipedia's stance here is simply a symptom of an American guilt about race and anxiety about the idea of difference which is not situated at the level of individuals.Another paradox: America's anxiety about cultural specificity comes, paradoxically, from its own cultural specificity: it is still the only nation composed almost entirely of people who arrived from other nations. Its retreat from its own history of slavery also means that it associates an emphasis on difference as something shameful and divisive. These specificities make the American version of universalism ("we're all unique, and we're all the same") peculiarly unexportable. They also make it almost impossible for Americans to understand the desire of other nations, eg Japan, to retain a distinctive Japaneseness as anything other than negative.
Mr Jet Set: I'm personally very much a Phase 1 globalist. I've lived in different parts of the world, I've dated people of different nationalities, I even married the daughter of economic migrants, a second-generation Bangladeshi in London. Phase 1 globalism is integral to my view of the world, my vision of happiness. I take it for granted that I can sit in Germany eating food flown in from Japan. It has become my belief that you can have a culture of origin and a culture of destination, and that part of the purpose of life is detaching yourself from your culture of origin, travelling and experimenting, and finding (according, perhaps, to some principle of "elective affinities") one's ideal "culture of destination". For me, that seems to be Japan. Then again, I don't actually believe that I can ever become Japanese, and I'm fine with that idea. I want my "culture of destination" to remain aspirational, mysterious, exotic, utopian. This, to me, has become a great source of happiness, and I've often quoted Kafka's saying that "happiness is having a vision of contentment, and not advancing towards it". Although I'd say it's okay to advance very, very slowly.No Phase 2: The other thing I want not to advance towards, though, is Phase 2 globalism: the melting pot. I don't want there to be no more truly Japanese people, just as I don't want there to be no more tigers or elephants in the world. I believe that cultural biodiversity is essential. Although Japanese personalities are hugely variable, there's still something that links all Japanese people, something I like very much, a national "operating system". I'm not essentialist or racist about this: another of my visions is the "Japanization" of the world. We can all be somewhat "Japanese".
Prejudice: I think it's okay to have a positive prejudice. The feeling that prejudice (judging without taking account of all the facts) is always bad, even when it's positive, might be a specifically anglo-saxon idea. There's a difference between anglo-saxon and continental thinking styles. Anglo-saxons are more empirical: they think that you neutrally gather hundreds of facts then form an idea based on your results. Continentals are more a priori: you start with the idea and group the facts around it. Anglo-saxons have a tendency to call this more ideological thinking "prejudice" because it stakes a position before looking at facts. Anglo-saxons are more inclined to think that they can be neutral until the very last moment, then leap across to a committed position. However, if you don't believe that neutrality is possible, it's actually modest and honest to begin by stating where you stand on an issue. I don't believe there's any such thing as neutrality, and I don't believe in the dogma of "equality of opportunity" for the same reason. Nobody is born in a neutral space. We have a culture even when we're in the womb. We have a cultural operating system, a habitus, a series of prejudices and preferences, right from birth. Equality of opportunity is just a dogma used to justify inequality of result. It perpetuates hierarchy and elitism. The least prejudiced thing you can do is admit that we're all prejudiced. Then sift and thresh your destructive prejudices from your creative ones, your kind ones from your cruel ones.Nipposexual: Not only is it okay to have a positive prejudice, it's okay to have a positive sexual prejudice. A positive sexual prejudice becomes a preference, and a preference, after a while, becomes an orientation.
Come out of the closet: People working in the gay liberation movement of the 60s and 70s felt that it wasn't enough to be privately homosexual. You had to "come out", to proclaim your orientation loudly and proudly in the public realm. A good-looking homosexual ought to be able to say "I'm gay, actually" at a dinner party without fear of offending all the women present who might be attracted to him. It wouldn't be impolite of him to admit his orientation, but it would be impolite of those women to protest loudly, or look terribly disappointed.
Pompous universalism: Someone who said "people of all races have an equal opportunity to become my lover" might be a terribly pompous person. We might also suspect that he was more interested in himself than in the cultural specificities of the people he dated. This notion that it's terribly noble to wear a blindfold (because Justice wears one) is a mistake. Look at your lover. Yes, she's a unique person. But she also comes from a culture which is different from yours, and that's a big part of why she is who she is. Maybe you should also admit that it's part of the reason you love her. And maybe, when you admit that, you shouldn't get a ton of bricks dropped on your head.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-06-04 11:24 am (UTC)Equality of opportunity is just a dogma used to justify inequality of result
Doesn't this assume that equality of opportunity is a reality, rather than an ideal?
(no subject)
Date: 2005-06-04 11:31 am (UTC)You know, if we're talking about shoulds, why not aim high?
(no subject)
Date: 2005-06-04 11:38 am (UTC)1.) Anyone who can take one's self out of one's immediate cultural context and say they like something most people in that culture don't have access to is undoubtedly in a state of privilege.
2.) This is most characteristic of men--white men, especially--because of class and the 'universal' quality of gender.
Otherwise, it's good for people to like other cultures, etc.
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Date: 2005-06-04 11:42 am (UTC)funny :)
(no subject)
Date: 2005-06-04 11:58 am (UTC)The fact that you, a Scottish atheist, married a British Muslim, is newsworthy - but it shouldn't be, should it? If there was more mingling across that divide, especially in Bradford and Burnley, the BNP would just implode.
I don't recognize the US as the home of generalized maximal Xenophilia. I don't have any statistics for this, but in London I know several married couples where one partner is black (African British or Afro-Caribbean British) and the other white (or European British). I visit the US a fair amount, and specifically black/white (African American / European American) partnerships seem relatively more rare in the US. But I could be wrong about that.
(BTW, the US isn't the only country largely populated by immigrants. The whole western hemisphere, including the Caribbean, is like that, plus Australia)
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Date: 2005-06-04 12:05 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2005-06-04 12:15 pm (UTC)positive prejudice means preferential treatment. which conversely means that there is a negative prejudice at the same time... a prejudice against white women who speak their minds, walk with a stride and look beyond the white-boy's skin colour and english-speaking skills when looking for a partner. This prejudice i can tell you from experience means that white women are treated pretty poorly by said Nipposexuals.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-06-04 12:26 pm (UTC)But "all's fair in love and war" doesn't mean that love is fair, it means that "anything goes". Fair enough, whoever said it knew lots about love.
(no subject)
From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2005-06-04 04:30 pm (UTC) - Expand(no subject)
Date: 2005-06-04 12:58 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-06-04 01:22 pm (UTC)It seems like a non-issue to me, because of course it's fine to fancy whoever you want, regardless of nationality. Surely age is the only factor that requires such well-defined boundaries?
(no subject)
Date: 2005-06-04 01:32 pm (UTC)But personally i think that being only specialized in japanese women to an obsessive extent represents some narcistic motive. That obsession is driven by the wish to decorate oneself with exotic women in order to increase the value of its own appearance.
If you have that great opportunity to meet a foreign girl that attracts you, then take that chance. But don't spend your time in chat rooms trying desperately to impress the shadow of yourself. These are otaku manners!
(no subject)
Date: 2005-06-04 02:20 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-06-04 03:08 pm (UTC)Avoiding the Nipposexual debate completely.
Date: 2005-06-04 02:38 pm (UTC)Re: Avoiding the Nipposexual debate completely.
Date: 2005-06-04 02:46 pm (UTC)1. Tokyo @ 33.7m
2. São Paulo @ 22.7m
3. Mexico City @ 22.1m
4. Seoul @ 22m
5. New York City @ 21.7m
6. Mumbai @ 18.8m
7. Delhi @ 18.1m
8. Los Angeles @ 17.5m
9. Osaka @ 16.5m
10. Jakarta @ 16.4m
11. Moscow @ 15.3m
~/~
16. London @ 13.9m
23. Paris @ 11.2m
94. Melbourne @ 3.5m
Re: Avoiding the Nipposexual debate completely.
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From:Re: Avoiding the Nipposexual debate completely.
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Date: 2005-06-04 02:53 pm (UTC)nippophiliac/nipposexual: certainly, better to use division in love than in hate. also, I think it's wiser to know what really moves you and follow your bliss than not. (unless your bliss really damages ME. or you. or them.) myself, I have tried to love someone only for his mind, and frankly it was pretty unsatisfactory for everyone.
feminism and femininity: is a single man better able to be independent and considered a more whole person than a single woman in Japanese culture?
(no subject)
Date: 2005-06-04 03:02 pm (UTC)I think it's interesting that in Japan—a consumer society in the extreme—women have traditionally controlled consumption (Japanese men earn the money, but their partners decide how it's spent). To this day, women in Japan are the exemplary consumers. Many Japanese consumer products have the forms they do because they've been tested on the tastes and needs of women.
(no subject)
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Date: 2005-06-04 02:59 pm (UTC)I think that you are correct in saying that currently the western notion of gender equality really only affords women the right to become men. If a woman wants to adopt the male gender role I see no problem but the way it's played out in the west has created a lot of domestic problems in this country.
As it is, women don't have a choice, to stay at home and merely be a housewife would be a disgrace to her gender. Both parents in a family are now expected to work leaving little time or energy for domestic concerns. Things like child rearing, cooking, cleaning, family gatherings, etc. How dare I say someone should have to stay at home and do such mundane tasks! Americans of today are largely raised by Disney, Viacom, and Playstation. We subsist on a diet of manufactured foodstuffs devoid of much of the nutrition found in fresh food prepared in a healthy way. All so we can have both parents work allowing us to afford to have two SUVs and a plasma TV on which to watch American Idol and CNN.
Gender equality in the west makes no allowance for males to adopt the traditionally female gender role and it has devalued the role of the domestic facilitator. As a result our society is clearly suffering. To say that Japan is behind because they haven't adopted our bad idea is dumb.
Re: future of women in the west
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Date: 2005-06-04 02:59 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-06-04 05:48 pm (UTC)it kind of conjures images to me of a sex-doll with asian features... like that's all a guy would need to fulfil the fantasy... if he wants a real girl he can get a real fantasy?
hmm.. maybe this is part of it but i think there's more to it.
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Date: 2005-06-04 03:04 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-06-04 05:50 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-06-04 03:05 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-06-04 03:09 pm (UTC)http://www.livejournal.com/users/hardartist/71082.html
I think y'all should wrestle in pudding.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-06-04 03:26 pm (UTC)It seems to me a rather prim and self-serving sort of statement to make. First, the men get to make the sort of complaint that usually only women can make. "I was exploited!" This diminishes their guilt about being of the predatory, patriarchal gender. Secondly, they can tell us how easy it was to get a girlfriend, but how quickly they rejected the girlfriend when they found she had "the wrong motives". I make fun of this sort of arrogance in my song "Scottish Lips": "Don't love me for my Scottish lips, but my truffles and my baklava..." -- the point being, who do we think we are to tell our partners not only to love us, but exactly why they should love us and why they shouldn't? Is that in our gift?
(no subject)
From:Phase 1 vs. 2
Date: 2005-06-04 04:05 pm (UTC)Thanks to our age, we can consume cultures selfishly, picking up the best parts and spitting out the bad. In the past I thought, take the Japanese fashion and cleanliness, but not the neo-nationalism and patriarchy. But I now fear that the dark parts of Japanese society sit at the core of the "good parts" (authoritarianism in fashion, consumption over self-actualization, the market replacing community, yakuza literally running the entertainment business). I think you choose to not see these as particularly bad, or perhaps, no worse than anywhere else, but I am having a real personal crisis with this dilemma. I can learn important lessons from Japan, but I'm not sure I can actively support the system itself.
Marxy
Re: Phase 1 vs. 2
Date: 2005-06-04 07:31 pm (UTC)I agree with you that the dark parts of Japanese society are all tangled up with the good parts. I don't think one can just go in wearing a surgeon's mask and cut out the bad parts.
For instance, if one believes (as I do) that there's an inherent virtue in extremely high density urban living, one has to accept that perhaps that depends on high land values combined with poverty. Eradicate poverty and you'll probably encourage people to spread out in suburbs. You'll also get them off their bicycles and into cars. But it's very hard to argue in favour of poverty in your political campaign, your newspaper editorial, or your planning policy white paper.
In the end I believe that virtue is beyond the control of planning or campaigning, that it's often the unforeseen response to mistakes and bad intentions, that it's somewhat fractal, random, opportunist, aleatory, the result of mistakes and misunderstandings turned into customs. But you do recognise it when you see it, and I continue to recognise it in Japan. My instinct is to leave the whole ecosystem as it is, yakuza and all, as long as it produces visible virtue somewhere. That's why I so often snap at your reformist crusade. Japan still strikes me as the place where more is virtuous (not to mention beautiful) than anywhere else. It's the place where modern life is least toxic. Public transport! 65% forest! Spotless hotels where normal people go to have recreational sex! Amazing gadgets and amazing shops! Low obesity rates and high life expectancy! A general sense of kindness and decency diffused throughout the population! No Christian nutcases! You know, you have to leave Japan from time to time to realise just how exceptional it is, and how fortunate.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-06-04 04:50 pm (UTC)http://kawama.tzo.com:1023/kris/
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Date: 2005-06-04 05:19 pm (UTC)nipposexual manifesto
From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2005-06-04 05:25 pm (UTC) - Expand(no subject)
Date: 2005-06-04 05:07 pm (UTC)a nicely offtopic comment, edited.
(no subject)
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Date: 2005-06-04 06:38 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-06-05 10:23 pm (UTC)That i recognize your Pizzicato Five icon, in addition to the Dazai Osamu icon of another user, however, has me wondering if i'm not in the same Japanophile boat. Man o'erboard!
do the continental, now do the watusi...
Date: 2005-06-04 06:42 pm (UTC)Re: do the continental, now do the watusi...
Date: 2005-06-04 07:03 pm (UTC)Re: do the continental, now do the watusi...
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Date: 2005-06-04 07:27 pm (UTC)"It's still only minorities who choose to live outside their nation of origin, minorities who "miscegenate", and so on.
Here in the U.S., both in the cosmopolitan L.A. where i can currently live (which is 48% Latino, 30% White, 11% Asian and 10% Black) and even in Midwestern cities like Minneapolis where I grew up, there's a large influx of white European immigrants (Russian, Eastern European) who have left their homes of origin and are currently "miscegenating" with all kinds of people. And where many conservative Americans point the finger at massive waves of Mexicans and Latin-Americans illegally crossing borders, there is an equally large amount of illegal Irish immigrants living in SF, Boston and New York.
I think many of these opinions are based much more on personal views which have not been rigorously self-interrogated and analyzed and less on actual sociology or science. With all due respect.
As far as the age-old mythology of Japanese women's preference for men, I think it would be naive to believe it wasn't as much about power relations (cultural, economic & political) as it was about race. I lived in Japan myself, and am not white, but was still exotified by Japanese women.
I'd recommend reading "Orientalism" and "Culture & Imperialism" by Edward Said for starters.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-06-04 08:16 pm (UTC)What you call "naively European" is pretty much the norm everywhere except in the US, though. The US is pretty exceptional in being a synthetic nation where everyone is, relatively recently, an arrival from somewhere else. That's why it makes no sense to impose the US model on other countries, or say it represents the future for the world. (Apart from it making no sense, it's also the worst kind of cultural imperialism to impose your social model on other cultures, especially when you're invading them, dropping atomic bombs on them, etc.)
I know Said's argument in "Orientalism", but I'm afraid I don't buy it. He sees the projection of oriental fantasies as an entirely negative phenomenon, I see it as something with positive potential, something which the projected-upon have often bought into and played up to and profited from.
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Date: 2005-06-04 07:31 pm (UTC)So it's not just the look, it's also the identity? Or is it more complex?
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Date: 2005-06-04 11:11 pm (UTC)He is an interesting enough contemporary singer songwriter though.
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Date: 2005-06-04 07:34 pm (UTC)