imomus: (Default)
[personal profile] imomus
This is Nipposexual Weekend. We'll need two days, because this question has shapely legs and will surely run and run. To sprint a bit faster through the subject, I'm going to use a notes format. There are lots of huge issues here, issues of race, gender and cultural identity. But the basic theme can be put very simply: Is it okay to be a nipposexual?

Definition: a nipposexual is a non-Japanese person whose primary sexual orientation is towards Japanese people.

Experimental metaphor: a nipposexual is like a homosexual. However, many people who wouldn't dream of persecuting homosexuals because of their chosen sexual orientation do persecute nipposexuals. Well, tease them and scold them, anyway.

Example: Yuki, on her lively blog Kissui, recently told a self-confessed nipposexual to "get lost". "Too bad you don't like your European girls Metsn, but then why is it all of a sudden it's Japanese girls that you're aiming for? People like you should like, eh, live in a deserted island in the middle of the ocean."

Hisae's take: "I don't mind if a guy's last ten girlfriends just happen to have been Japanese. But I do mind if he says he only dates Japanese girls. I think it's the way you say it that's offensive."

Momus's take: there are some ideological contradictions here. First of all, Yuki posted a photo of a hot European guy in response to an entry I made showing a photo of a hot Japanese girl. So she was saying "You can fetishize us, but we can fetishize you back". But then when Metsn cheerfully admitted to doing this, he was banished. So is it "We can do that too, you know!" or "You shouldn't do that?" Personally, I prefer "We can do that too, you know!" I'd have no problem with a girl who fetishized Scottish guys, as long as she also appreciated how I differed from the average Scottish guy. I am Scottish, and quite proud of it.

Funny paradox: It's typically Scottish to leave Scotland and travel the world.

Contradiction: We don't think it's suspicious when people have a gender prejudice ("I tend to date only women.") But we do think it's suspicious when people have a cultural preference ("I tend to date only Japanese").

Biographical tidbit: When I was in "the latency phase" at my Scottish boarding school I had a boyfriend. He was an oriental. It's perfectly possible to imagine someone who doesn't mind what gender their lovers are, as long as they're Japanese.

Another contradiction: In Western ideology we say "everyone is different, individual, unique" but we also say "everyone all over the world is the same deep down". Well, I guess that's not necessarily a contradiction, it's the same idea that's contained in the idea of the "glocal", that local differences and global convergence can co-exist. But it represents a measure of anxiety about the intermediate levels: an anxiety about difference based on race, culture, nationality, body shape, gender and so on. These specificities are unfashionable, downplayed, and even taboo. This makes it very hard to describe a friend without embarrassment: you just can't say "You'll recognise her at the station, she's the fat oriental girl." But you also can't say "You'll recognise her at the station, she's the truly unique individual who, deep down, is just like everybody else in the world."

Globalism: There's Phase 1 Globalism and Phase 2 Globalism. We're in Phase 1 right now. Phase 1 is when people still have strong local cultural identities (we're still recognisably "Scottish" or "Japanese") but have the opportunity to travel, to meet people from other cultures, to pick and choose (including making sexual choices) from a kind of supermarket of fairly well-established "brands". Phase 2 would be when travel, interbreeding and cultural hybridisation has make national typologies meaningless. When everyone is coffee-coloured and multi-cultural. I don't think we've reached that stage yet, and it's possible that we never will. It's still only minorities who choose to live outside their nation of origin, minorities who "miscegenate", and so on.

A possible motto: "Miscegenation is not misogyny!"

Shock horror: Wikipedia's miscegenation entry says: "the use of this term is invariably restricted to those who believe that the category race is meaningful when applied to human beings." I would disagree with this. Race may have no basis in scientific fact, but the fact is that it's very much still active as a shaper of human experience, therefore "meaningful". Race is still "a difference that makes a difference". To deny this is to attempt the erasure of enormous amounts of history, of lived experience, of cultural specificity. Wikipedia's stance here is simply a symptom of an American guilt about race and anxiety about the idea of difference which is not situated at the level of individuals.

Another paradox: America's anxiety about cultural specificity comes, paradoxically, from its own cultural specificity: it is still the only nation composed almost entirely of people who arrived from other nations. Its retreat from its own history of slavery also means that it associates an emphasis on difference as something shameful and divisive. These specificities make the American version of universalism ("we're all unique, and we're all the same") peculiarly unexportable. They also make it almost impossible for Americans to understand the desire of other nations, eg Japan, to retain a distinctive Japaneseness as anything other than negative.

Mr Jet Set: I'm personally very much a Phase 1 globalist. I've lived in different parts of the world, I've dated people of different nationalities, I even married the daughter of economic migrants, a second-generation Bangladeshi in London. Phase 1 globalism is integral to my view of the world, my vision of happiness. I take it for granted that I can sit in Germany eating food flown in from Japan. It has become my belief that you can have a culture of origin and a culture of destination, and that part of the purpose of life is detaching yourself from your culture of origin, travelling and experimenting, and finding (according, perhaps, to some principle of "elective affinities") one's ideal "culture of destination". For me, that seems to be Japan. Then again, I don't actually believe that I can ever become Japanese, and I'm fine with that idea. I want my "culture of destination" to remain aspirational, mysterious, exotic, utopian. This, to me, has become a great source of happiness, and I've often quoted Kafka's saying that "happiness is having a vision of contentment, and not advancing towards it". Although I'd say it's okay to advance very, very slowly.

No Phase 2: The other thing I want not to advance towards, though, is Phase 2 globalism: the melting pot. I don't want there to be no more truly Japanese people, just as I don't want there to be no more tigers or elephants in the world. I believe that cultural biodiversity is essential. Although Japanese personalities are hugely variable, there's still something that links all Japanese people, something I like very much, a national "operating system". I'm not essentialist or racist about this: another of my visions is the "Japanization" of the world. We can all be somewhat "Japanese".

Prejudice: I think it's okay to have a positive prejudice. The feeling that prejudice (judging without taking account of all the facts) is always bad, even when it's positive, might be a specifically anglo-saxon idea. There's a difference between anglo-saxon and continental thinking styles. Anglo-saxons are more empirical: they think that you neutrally gather hundreds of facts then form an idea based on your results. Continentals are more a priori: you start with the idea and group the facts around it. Anglo-saxons have a tendency to call this more ideological thinking "prejudice" because it stakes a position before looking at facts. Anglo-saxons are more inclined to think that they can be neutral until the very last moment, then leap across to a committed position. However, if you don't believe that neutrality is possible, it's actually modest and honest to begin by stating where you stand on an issue. I don't believe there's any such thing as neutrality, and I don't believe in the dogma of "equality of opportunity" for the same reason. Nobody is born in a neutral space. We have a culture even when we're in the womb. We have a cultural operating system, a habitus, a series of prejudices and preferences, right from birth. Equality of opportunity is just a dogma used to justify inequality of result. It perpetuates hierarchy and elitism. The least prejudiced thing you can do is admit that we're all prejudiced. Then sift and thresh your destructive prejudices from your creative ones, your kind ones from your cruel ones.

Nipposexual: Not only is it okay to have a positive prejudice, it's okay to have a positive sexual prejudice. A positive sexual prejudice becomes a preference, and a preference, after a while, becomes an orientation.

Come out of the closet: People working in the gay liberation movement of the 60s and 70s felt that it wasn't enough to be privately homosexual. You had to "come out", to proclaim your orientation loudly and proudly in the public realm. A good-looking homosexual ought to be able to say "I'm gay, actually" at a dinner party without fear of offending all the women present who might be attracted to him. It wouldn't be impolite of him to admit his orientation, but it would be impolite of those women to protest loudly, or look terribly disappointed.

Pompous universalism: Someone who said "people of all races have an equal opportunity to become my lover" might be a terribly pompous person. We might also suspect that he was more interested in himself than in the cultural specificities of the people he dated. This notion that it's terribly noble to wear a blindfold (because Justice wears one) is a mistake. Look at your lover. Yes, she's a unique person. But she also comes from a culture which is different from yours, and that's a big part of why she is who she is. Maybe you should also admit that it's part of the reason you love her. And maybe, when you admit that, you shouldn't get a ton of bricks dropped on your head.
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(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-04 11:24 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] klig.livejournal.com
Some interesting stuff in there.

Equality of opportunity is just a dogma used to justify inequality of result

Doesn't this assume that equality of opportunity is a reality, rather than an ideal?

(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-04 11:31 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
When I call equality of opportunity a "dogma", I think it's clear that I'm saying it's an ideal, something ideological. However, I should say that even as an ideal, it's not my ideal. I prefer equality of actuality as an ideal. The people who say that everyone should have an equal chance throw up their hands in horror when you correct them with "No, actually everyone should have an equal result."

You know, if we're talking about shoulds, why not aim high?

(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-04 11:38 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hello-sailor.livejournal.com
Yeah, that's fine. There are only two minor problematic areas:
1.) Anyone who can take one's self out of one's immediate cultural context and say they like something most people in that culture don't have access to is undoubtedly in a state of privilege.
2.) This is most characteristic of men--white men, especially--because of class and the 'universal' quality of gender.
Otherwise, it's good for people to like other cultures, etc.
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Date: 2005-06-04 11:38 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kattullus.livejournal.com
I think you're conflating categories by affixing the suffix -sexuality to your and others' sexual preference for Japanese people. Homosexuality and asexuality and bisexuality and heterosexuality et cetera are genetically determined, i.e. you're born gay, straight, bi or asexual. Now, I am not a geneticist but from what I know, sexual preference towards people of one nationality/race/eye color/voice timbre would be a classic case of an acquired preference. I'm not saying that it's necessarily a conscious choice, but that no one's born "nipposexual", but that rather it's a taste that people acquire.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-04 11:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
But you seem to be villifying free agency, free will here. Why is it innocent to be genetically programmed into one's preferences, but guilty to choose them of one's own free will, based on extensive testing and sifting?

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Date: 2005-06-04 11:42 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aienn.livejournal.com
now Momus sounds just like HK-47
funny :)

(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-04 11:58 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] georgesdelatour.livejournal.com
A sexual predilection for people of a specific other race (gay or straight) seems fine to me, as long as it leads to relationships that are fair and consensual. Not sure what I think of "Asian Babes" mags, though.

The fact that you, a Scottish atheist, married a British Muslim, is newsworthy - but it shouldn't be, should it? If there was more mingling across that divide, especially in Bradford and Burnley, the BNP would just implode.

I don't recognize the US as the home of generalized maximal Xenophilia. I don't have any statistics for this, but in London I know several married couples where one partner is black (African British or Afro-Caribbean British) and the other white (or European British). I visit the US a fair amount, and specifically black/white (African American / European American) partnerships seem relatively more rare in the US. But I could be wrong about that.

(BTW, the US isn't the only country largely populated by immigrants. The whole western hemisphere, including the Caribbean, is like that, plus Australia)
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(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-04 12:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
What about the Japanese girls who are only into black guys?
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Date: 2005-06-04 12:15 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Nipposexual: Not only is it okay to have a positive prejudice, it's okay to have a positive sexual prejudice. A positive sexual prejudice becomes a preference, and a preference, after a while, becomes an orientation.

positive prejudice means preferential treatment. which conversely means that there is a negative prejudice at the same time... a prejudice against white women who speak their minds, walk with a stride and look beyond the white-boy's skin colour and english-speaking skills when looking for a partner. This prejudice i can tell you from experience means that white women are treated pretty poorly by said Nipposexuals.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-04 12:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
Whoever said "all's fair in love and war" clearly knew nothing about love, though. And particularly sex. I mean, they're hardly areas where we want to treat everyone equally, or distribute our booty throughout the entire population.

But "all's fair in love and war" doesn't mean that love is fair, it means that "anything goes". Fair enough, whoever said it knew lots about love.

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(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-04 12:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hozomeen.livejournal.com
By coincidence, there was a related post at Ask Metafilter (http://ask.metafilter.com/mefi/19468#comment) that discusses some of the same points you're making. I find the concept of racial preference in an increasingly but somewhat awkwardly globalized world, fascinating.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-04 01:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alandriscoll.livejournal.com
Interesting stuff, but is it important or relevant to define sexuality in such ways? I've never understood the need to draw lines around cultures, sexualities, etc.

It seems like a non-issue to me, because of course it's fine to fancy whoever you want, regardless of nationality. Surely age is the only factor that requires such well-defined boundaries?

(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-04 01:32 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I adore the beauty of japan's women as well. Nothing can be more funny, interesting and amusingly complicated as an interracial relationship.

But personally i think that being only specialized in japanese women to an obsessive extent represents some narcistic motive. That obsession is driven by the wish to decorate oneself with exotic women in order to increase the value of its own appearance.

If you have that great opportunity to meet a foreign girl that attracts you, then take that chance. But don't spend your time in chat rooms trying desperately to impress the shadow of yourself. These are otaku manners!

(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-04 02:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] slinka.livejournal.com
It's funny that it's acceptable to fetishize someone's shoes but orientation toward their culture is such a touchy subject. Really, what says more about a person?

(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-04 03:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alisgray.livejournal.com
it is, certainly, more difficult to change your culture than to change your shoes. I find that my shoes aren't quite as important a part of my identity and worldview. your shoes may be much more powerful.

Avoiding the Nipposexual debate completely.

Date: 2005-06-04 02:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] artysmokes.livejournal.com
Why do so many Scots leave their native land?

Re: Avoiding the Nipposexual debate completely.

Date: 2005-06-04 02:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
Well, for lots of reasons (cruel landlords, famines, the proximity of the sea, a Romantic sense of adventure, the advent of the British Empire, poverty, wanderlust, the cold grey weather...). In my case, because I like big cities and Scotland doesn't have any to speak of. The world's biggest cities are:

1. Tokyo @ 33.7m
2. São Paulo @ 22.7m
3. Mexico City @ 22.1m
4. Seoul @ 22m
5. New York City @ 21.7m
6. Mumbai @ 18.8m
7. Delhi @ 18.1m
8. Los Angeles @ 17.5m
9. Osaka @ 16.5m
10. Jakarta @ 16.4m
11. Moscow @ 15.3m
~/~
16. London @ 13.9m
23. Paris @ 11.2m
94. Melbourne @ 3.5m

SCOTLAND

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(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-04 02:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alisgray.livejournal.com
science and race: all humans are the same species. there is more variation within the phenotypic differences that humans use to define "race" than between them. however, as a student of physical anthropology, I'd like to point out that there are limitations to how much what we call race relies entirely on cultural values. if I were born in Japan, raised in a traditional Japanese family, spoke only Japanese, and never travelled, would I be accepted by everyone I met as Japanese? wouldn't folks still comment on my green eyes and curly hair? if I my body was found, would I not initially be identified as a European?

nippophiliac/nipposexual: certainly, better to use division in love than in hate. also, I think it's wiser to know what really moves you and follow your bliss than not. (unless your bliss really damages ME. or you. or them.) myself, I have tried to love someone only for his mind, and frankly it was pretty unsatisfactory for everyone.

feminism and femininity: is a single man better able to be independent and considered a more whole person than a single woman in Japanese culture?

(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-04 03:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
is a single man better able to be independent and considered a more whole person than a single woman in Japanese culture?

I think it's interesting that in Japan—a consumer society in the extreme—women have traditionally controlled consumption (Japanese men earn the money, but their partners decide how it's spent). To this day, women in Japan are the exemplary consumers. Many Japanese consumer products have the forms they do because they've been tested on the tastes and needs of women.

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Date: 2005-06-04 02:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] outdoorminerbob.livejournal.com
Right or wrong Momus I applaud your bravery for "coming out" like this. You had to have known you were gonna get your nuts stomped on.

I think that you are correct in saying that currently the western notion of gender equality really only affords women the right to become men. If a woman wants to adopt the male gender role I see no problem but the way it's played out in the west has created a lot of domestic problems in this country.

As it is, women don't have a choice, to stay at home and merely be a housewife would be a disgrace to her gender. Both parents in a family are now expected to work leaving little time or energy for domestic concerns. Things like child rearing, cooking, cleaning, family gatherings, etc. How dare I say someone should have to stay at home and do such mundane tasks! Americans of today are largely raised by Disney, Viacom, and Playstation. We subsist on a diet of manufactured foodstuffs devoid of much of the nutrition found in fresh food prepared in a healthy way. All so we can have both parents work allowing us to afford to have two SUVs and a plasma TV on which to watch American Idol and CNN.

Gender equality in the west makes no allowance for males to adopt the traditionally female gender role and it has devalued the role of the domestic facilitator. As a result our society is clearly suffering. To say that Japan is behind because they haven't adopted our bad idea is dumb.
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Re: future of women in the west

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(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-04 02:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] freddster.livejournal.com
interesting blog entry! i've often thought about things like this, but you put it into words... i am half chinese (chinese father, scottish mother) and i never really find myself attracted to british guys. when i was younger i dated british and european guys, but as i've gotten older i tend only to be attracted to asians, and japanese guys i find really attractive.. also, i find it highly offensive when the caucasian guys i have dated say things like they've always wanted to "try" a chinese girl, or an asian girl.. etc.. that's a big no no for me. i agree with hisae, it's the way it's said.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-04 05:48 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
i get the same chill hearing those words, i wonder what it is exactly that screams "this is wrong!"

it kind of conjures images to me of a sex-doll with asian features... like that's all a guy would need to fulfil the fantasy... if he wants a real girl he can get a real fantasy?

hmm.. maybe this is part of it but i think there's more to it.

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(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-04 03:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sonjaaa.livejournal.com
There's the term Japanophile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanophile) too.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-04 05:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] 33mhz.livejournal.com
I noticed that article a while back, and I really don't agree with it at all. For the people I know, Japanophile remains a primarily neutral descriptor, while Otaku are the people who can't tell when they'r taking things a little too far.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-04 03:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] piratehead.livejournal.com
I heard Robert de Niro likes Black women. I challenge you to coin a term.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-04 03:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] darthhellokitty.livejournal.com
I'm delighted that you're brought this up - because another person on my flist posted about the same issue the other day, and I thought of you, of course.

http://www.livejournal.com/users/hardartist/71082.html

I think y'all should wrestle in pudding.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-06-04 03:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
That sort of post is something I'm seeing more and more. A post-feminist Western man saying "I was treated as a sexual object by predatory Asian women who just wanted me for my race. It was awful!"

It seems to me a rather prim and self-serving sort of statement to make. First, the men get to make the sort of complaint that usually only women can make. "I was exploited!" This diminishes their guilt about being of the predatory, patriarchal gender. Secondly, they can tell us how easy it was to get a girlfriend, but how quickly they rejected the girlfriend when they found she had "the wrong motives". I make fun of this sort of arrogance in my song "Scottish Lips": "Don't love me for my Scottish lips, but my truffles and my baklava..." -- the point being, who do we think we are to tell our partners not only to love us, but exactly why they should love us and why they shouldn't? Is that in our gift?

(no subject)

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Phase 1 vs. 2

Date: 2005-06-04 04:05 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I'm very interested in your Phase 1 vs. Phase 2 typology, and this explains why we butt heads so often: I am a Phase 2 proponent. I believe that cultural "bio-diversity" should exist, but we as individuals should free ourselves from our original roots and pick and choose from the individual parts to create the best possible social system. The early 20th century Modernist Phase 2 Universalist project failed because it assumed that Western rationalist reductions were "common" in all cultures, but I believe that we are now creating a new realistically universal language based on a selection of various multicultural elements. Certainly, growing up in America strengthened this belief: I've seen enough of the melting pot to know that an even more ideal version could exist.

Thanks to our age, we can consume cultures selfishly, picking up the best parts and spitting out the bad. In the past I thought, take the Japanese fashion and cleanliness, but not the neo-nationalism and patriarchy. But I now fear that the dark parts of Japanese society sit at the core of the "good parts" (authoritarianism in fashion, consumption over self-actualization, the market replacing community, yakuza literally running the entertainment business). I think you choose to not see these as particularly bad, or perhaps, no worse than anywhere else, but I am having a real personal crisis with this dilemma. I can learn important lessons from Japan, but I'm not sure I can actively support the system itself.

Marxy

Re: Phase 1 vs. 2

Date: 2005-06-04 07:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
But I now fear that the dark parts of Japanese society sit at the core of the "good parts" (authoritarianism in fashion, consumption over self-actualization, the market replacing community, yakuza literally running the entertainment business). I think you choose to not see these as particularly bad, or perhaps, no worse than anywhere else, but I am having a real personal crisis with this dilemma. I can learn important lessons from Japan, but I'm not sure I can actively support the system itself.

I agree with you that the dark parts of Japanese society are all tangled up with the good parts. I don't think one can just go in wearing a surgeon's mask and cut out the bad parts.

For instance, if one believes (as I do) that there's an inherent virtue in extremely high density urban living, one has to accept that perhaps that depends on high land values combined with poverty. Eradicate poverty and you'll probably encourage people to spread out in suburbs. You'll also get them off their bicycles and into cars. But it's very hard to argue in favour of poverty in your political campaign, your newspaper editorial, or your planning policy white paper.

In the end I believe that virtue is beyond the control of planning or campaigning, that it's often the unforeseen response to mistakes and bad intentions, that it's somewhat fractal, random, opportunist, aleatory, the result of mistakes and misunderstandings turned into customs. But you do recognise it when you see it, and I continue to recognise it in Japan. My instinct is to leave the whole ecosystem as it is, yakuza and all, as long as it produces visible virtue somewhere. That's why I so often snap at your reformist crusade. Japan still strikes me as the place where more is virtuous (not to mention beautiful) than anywhere else. It's the place where modern life is least toxic. Public transport! 65% forest! Spotless hotels where normal people go to have recreational sex! Amazing gadgets and amazing shops! Low obesity rates and high life expectancy! A general sense of kindness and decency diffused throughout the population! No Christian nutcases! You know, you have to leave Japan from time to time to realise just how exceptional it is, and how fortunate.

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Date: 2005-06-04 04:50 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Check out your 'nipposexual' brethren:

http://kawama.tzo.com:1023/kris/

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Date: 2005-06-04 05:19 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Wow, this was highly educational. Check out the glib use of the word "field nigger" and the sexual conquest stories.

nipposexual manifesto

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2005-06-04 05:25 pm (UTC) - Expand

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Date: 2005-06-04 05:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alionunderaw.livejournal.com
also wonder how much of say, the tread with [livejournal.com profile] blackbauble has to do with cultural limitations? At some point I think one can run aground, as marxy said, sort of, in finding some part of a culture problematic, in that the problematic aspect is only that when it is fit into the observer's culture, but it maybe isn't (un)problematic, or assumes a different role in its own context. and maybe also the condemnation/noncondemnation debate is also cultureally delimited.

a nicely offtopic comment, edited.

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From: [identity profile] alionunderaw.livejournal.com - Date: 2005-06-04 06:26 pm (UTC) - Expand

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Date: 2005-06-04 06:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] touristathome.livejournal.com
Wow...you've officially gone off the deep end. Disguise it with as many references to gay rights and analyses of globalization that you want, you still sound exactly like those guys who want Japanese chicks because of anime.

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Date: 2005-06-05 10:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cowardlykitten.livejournal.com
Haha. Exactly what i was thinking as i was reading. I concur. Still, it is rather amusing. And while the original post was a load of bollocks to me, i actually do agree with some of Momus's follow-up comments.

That i recognize your Pizzicato Five icon, in addition to the Dazai Osamu icon of another user, however, has me wondering if i'm not in the same Japanophile boat. Man o'erboard!

do the continental, now do the watusi...

Date: 2005-06-04 06:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lord-whimsy.livejournal.com
Prejudice and a priori thinking is how "Intelligent Design" happens. Perhaps a show in Kansas might be in order?

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Date: 2005-06-04 07:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] la-aquarius.livejournal.com
I hear some shades of a naively European view of race relations.

"It's still only minorities who choose to live outside their nation of origin, minorities who "miscegenate", and so on.

Here in the U.S., both in the cosmopolitan L.A. where i can currently live (which is 48% Latino, 30% White, 11% Asian and 10% Black) and even in Midwestern cities like Minneapolis where I grew up, there's a large influx of white European immigrants (Russian, Eastern European) who have left their homes of origin and are currently "miscegenating" with all kinds of people. And where many conservative Americans point the finger at massive waves of Mexicans and Latin-Americans illegally crossing borders, there is an equally large amount of illegal Irish immigrants living in SF, Boston and New York.

I think many of these opinions are based much more on personal views which have not been rigorously self-interrogated and analyzed and less on actual sociology or science. With all due respect.

As far as the age-old mythology of Japanese women's preference for men, I think it would be naive to believe it wasn't as much about power relations (cultural, economic & political) as it was about race. I lived in Japan myself, and am not white, but was still exotified by Japanese women.

I'd recommend reading "Orientalism" and "Culture & Imperialism" by Edward Said for starters.

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Date: 2005-06-04 08:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
I hear some shades of a naively European view of race relations.

What you call "naively European" is pretty much the norm everywhere except in the US, though. The US is pretty exceptional in being a synthetic nation where everyone is, relatively recently, an arrival from somewhere else. That's why it makes no sense to impose the US model on other countries, or say it represents the future for the world. (Apart from it making no sense, it's also the worst kind of cultural imperialism to impose your social model on other cultures, especially when you're invading them, dropping atomic bombs on them, etc.)

I know Said's argument in "Orientalism", but I'm afraid I don't buy it. He sees the projection of oriental fantasies as an entirely negative phenomenon, I see it as something with positive potential, something which the projected-upon have often bought into and played up to and profited from.

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From: [identity profile] la-aquarius.livejournal.com - Date: 2005-06-04 08:35 pm (UTC) - Expand
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uh...australia

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2005-06-05 12:23 pm (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] mckibillo.livejournal.com - Date: 2005-06-05 02:20 am (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] butterflyrobert.livejournal.com - Date: 2005-06-05 06:46 am (UTC) - Expand

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Date: 2005-06-04 07:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] w-e-quimby.livejournal.com
So what you're saying is that you're not a racial fetishizer, but a cultural one? As in, you're not necessarily a guy who's only turned on sc. by Asian women/men/transsexuals/pansexuals/asexuals/etc., but you're a guy who's turned on mainly by Japanese women/men/transsexuals/panseuxals/asexuals/etc., and that you could just as easily be turned on by black/Latino/white/mixed/American Indian women/men/transsexuals/pansexuals/asexuals as long as they are somehow Japanese in their way of being?

So it's not just the look, it's also the identity? Or is it more complex?

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Date: 2005-06-04 11:11 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
It's not worth bothering to argue with Momus. Like most imperialists he's already decided that his rhetorical position is self-justified and the one he'll stick with and unless he can use clever word play to joust competitively with his sparring partners, he won't engage in discussions of issues that challenge his limited world view and his masturbatory little opinions.

He is an interesting enough contemporary singer songwriter though.
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From: [identity profile] butterflyrobert.livejournal.com - Date: 2005-06-05 06:48 am (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] w-e-quimby.livejournal.com - Date: 2005-06-05 06:55 am (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] cowardlykitten.livejournal.com - Date: 2005-06-05 10:38 pm (UTC) - Expand

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From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2005-06-05 11:46 pm (UTC) - Expand

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Date: 2005-06-04 07:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] w-e-quimby.livejournal.com
Also, you're basically saying that cultural globalization is bad?
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