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imomusThe other day, chatting with Alin Huma, I asked "Who was it who said the Japanese have no pyschoanalysis, and no need for psychoanalysts, because they have no unconscious? Because all the neuroses are on the surface here?"
"It was Lacan, wasn't it?" said Alin.
Actually, there have been Japanese psychoanalysts. Hayao Kawai (1928-2007), for instance. If Freud delved into the Bible and Greek mythology for motifs like Moses and Oedipus, Kawai delved into Buddhism, Japanese folk tales, and even the novels of Haruki Murakami for his motifs and examples. Kawai thought of himself as a Jungian. Much of his work examines the difference between the Eastern and Western mindsets.
In books like Psyche in Japan and Buddhism and the Art of Psychotherapy, Kawai laid out three key points which he saw as distinguishing the Eastern mind:
1. A tendency to introversion
2. The location of consciousness outside the self
3. The strength of "the great mother inside"
According to Kawai, there's a lack of distinction in the Eastern world between consciousness and unconsciousness (an idea which mirrors Lacan's thought about everything we think of as "deeply buried" being out in the open and up on the surface in Japan). Eastern philosophy seeks the self, historically, in its own unconsciousness. Jung said that when Westerners say the word "mind" it refers to consciousness, but when Easterners say the same word it refers to the unconscious.
Here's a simple diagram Kawai made to show the differences between the Eastern and Western minds, as he saw it. The Eastern self lives in the unconsciousness, which means there's a lack of knowledge of the self. The self in Westerners is put in the centre of consciousness, which means that the self is seen as strong, central and independent -- and yet frail, because this Robinson Crusoe is surrounded by the unknown, able to be overwhelmed and undermined at any moment by powerful "instincts" and "impulses" from somewhere else.
As a result of this basic organisation of the self, Westerners tend to find the meaning of their life in a fight with fate and with their own nature, whereas Easterners tend to find the meaning of life in "tasting their fate"; accepting it, and living in harmony with their own nature. The typical Western dramatic hero struggles against the inevitable, whereas the typical Eastern hero "tastes" and accepts it.
This leads to differences in attitudes to "the great mother" (which relates to my thoughts about the robotic female authority figure in overwhelmed by milk). In the West, thinks Kawai, people have to kill their mother in order to win their independence. In the East, people try to achieve independence without killing the mother.
In Japan, says Kawai, people tend to model any kind of social group on family relationships, in both good and bad ways. When your school and company is a family group, things can sometimes get intolerable, stifling. On the other hand, society as a great universal mother can bind people together and make them less lonely.
Kawai didn't entirely see Japan as an Eastern culture, though; for him it was an important bridge, a place where Western and Eastern conceptions of the self and society could mingle.
"It was Lacan, wasn't it?" said Alin.
Actually, there have been Japanese psychoanalysts. Hayao Kawai (1928-2007), for instance. If Freud delved into the Bible and Greek mythology for motifs like Moses and Oedipus, Kawai delved into Buddhism, Japanese folk tales, and even the novels of Haruki Murakami for his motifs and examples. Kawai thought of himself as a Jungian. Much of his work examines the difference between the Eastern and Western mindsets.
In books like Psyche in Japan and Buddhism and the Art of Psychotherapy, Kawai laid out three key points which he saw as distinguishing the Eastern mind:
1. A tendency to introversion
2. The location of consciousness outside the self
3. The strength of "the great mother inside"
According to Kawai, there's a lack of distinction in the Eastern world between consciousness and unconsciousness (an idea which mirrors Lacan's thought about everything we think of as "deeply buried" being out in the open and up on the surface in Japan). Eastern philosophy seeks the self, historically, in its own unconsciousness. Jung said that when Westerners say the word "mind" it refers to consciousness, but when Easterners say the same word it refers to the unconscious.
Here's a simple diagram Kawai made to show the differences between the Eastern and Western minds, as he saw it. The Eastern self lives in the unconsciousness, which means there's a lack of knowledge of the self. The self in Westerners is put in the centre of consciousness, which means that the self is seen as strong, central and independent -- and yet frail, because this Robinson Crusoe is surrounded by the unknown, able to be overwhelmed and undermined at any moment by powerful "instincts" and "impulses" from somewhere else.
As a result of this basic organisation of the self, Westerners tend to find the meaning of their life in a fight with fate and with their own nature, whereas Easterners tend to find the meaning of life in "tasting their fate"; accepting it, and living in harmony with their own nature. The typical Western dramatic hero struggles against the inevitable, whereas the typical Eastern hero "tastes" and accepts it.
This leads to differences in attitudes to "the great mother" (which relates to my thoughts about the robotic female authority figure in overwhelmed by milk). In the West, thinks Kawai, people have to kill their mother in order to win their independence. In the East, people try to achieve independence without killing the mother.
In Japan, says Kawai, people tend to model any kind of social group on family relationships, in both good and bad ways. When your school and company is a family group, things can sometimes get intolerable, stifling. On the other hand, society as a great universal mother can bind people together and make them less lonely.
Kawai didn't entirely see Japan as an Eastern culture, though; for him it was an important bridge, a place where Western and Eastern conceptions of the self and society could mingle.
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kawai is not so cute
Date: 2009-12-24 05:12 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-12-24 05:15 am (UTC)http://www.amazon.com/Zen-Buddhism-Psychoanalysis-Erich-Fromm/dp/0060901756
It's not bad. A little dated, but definitely worth the read. Found it in a used books market in Brooklyn.
My attention wavered for a second and I decided to see what Momus was up to.
Re: kawai is not so cute
Date: 2009-12-24 06:35 am (UTC)Secondly, the characterisation of the world as "endlessly complex, specific and variegated" is also, in its way, reductive and simplistic. Why shouldn't broad cultural differences in things like the conception of self and society exist, and be related to religious traditions, family structure, and other broad differences?
Re: kawai is not so cute
Date: 2009-12-24 06:55 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-12-24 08:03 am (UTC)Anne Allison`s `Permitted and Prohibited Desires,` explores more about the milk and how it relatates to sexuality and sexism in Japan, but her language is a little accusatory towards Japanese men.
"Mind" as an epiphenomenon of the English language
Date: 2009-12-24 08:12 am (UTC)"Jung said that when Westerners say the word "mind" it refers to consciousness, but when Easterners say the same word it refers to the unconscious."
Well, if he said it in German, he can't have said quite THAT, because neither German nor Japanese nor any other language that I know seems to have any word for "mind". There are certainly plenty of words for "consciousness", "reason", "soul", etc. but "mind" seems to be a specifically English language concept.
If you replace "mind" in the Jung quote with some of these other terms, it suddenly becomes a very different discussion, doesn't it?
Jan
Re: kawai is not so cute
Date: 2009-12-24 08:43 am (UTC)Re: "Mind" as an epiphenomenon of the English language
Date: 2009-12-24 08:45 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-12-24 08:52 am (UTC)it's simply the complexity of the system in AI artefacts - robots, A-Life, cellular-automata that appears to give the illusion that some 'mystical' process ('mind') is controlling the brain which, in turn, outputs actions, emotions etc. Such a soulless view - I'm a symbolic AI-ist ... very old fashioned but, at least I retain a soul. Freud + Jung: both bollox'; ignore it; better stuff out there on this kind of thing - apologies, I detoured away from Nick's theme here ...
(no subject)
Date: 2009-12-24 09:59 am (UTC)I think Laurens van der Post may have mentioned this in his novel (The Seed and the Sower?). Anyway, he certainly talks a lot about the Japanese psyche in that novel, in ways that Kawai may (perhaps) recognise.
By the way:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/20/magazine/20jung-t.html
I wish more people would talk about Jung instead of Freud when they talk about psychoanalysis. Freud's position does seem to be entirely that of the self-centred west, trying to defend the mind from the incursions of the primitive unconscious.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-12-24 11:08 am (UTC)Re: "Mind" as an epiphenomenon of the English language
Date: 2009-12-24 01:14 pm (UTC)Actually, in scientific contexts, at least, mind is usually translated as "kokoro". "Kokoro", however, is only sometimes translated as "mind". More frequent translations are "heart" and "soul" - which are precisely what the "mind" is NOT supposed to be.
Jan
Re: kawai is not so cute
Date: 2009-12-24 02:01 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-12-24 02:33 pm (UTC)http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0995716/
What did you think?
:)
(no subject)
Date: 2009-12-24 03:35 pm (UTC)Since writing that I've not only seen the film but interviewed director Mike Mills about it for 032c magazine! But it would take too long to type about it here (I'm on the iPod).
(no subject)
Date: 2009-12-24 03:57 pm (UTC)-John Flesh
Re: "Mind" as an epiphenomenon of the English language
Date: 2009-12-24 05:19 pm (UTC)"Hugi", aso being the name of one of Odin's ravens. Means exactly the same as mind.
Re: kawai is not so cute
Date: 2009-12-24 05:21 pm (UTC)Re: kawai is not so cute
Date: 2009-12-24 05:24 pm (UTC)Re: kawai is not so cute
Date: 2009-12-24 06:39 pm (UTC)YOURS,
UPPER-CASE ANON
Re: "Mind" as an epiphenomenon of the English language
Date: 2009-12-24 07:26 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-12-24 07:33 pm (UTC)can't see a connection there however you might strech it . one is purely, pragnatically linguistic (think if english had der/die/das the moon would be der Moon) the other is ( or presumably was x000 years ago ) mythological.
Some questions
Date: 2009-12-24 08:10 pm (UTC)Isn't it strange how, once provoked by Momus, you immediately resort to using the same broad brush archetypes? Or are you acknowledging that there is something in Momus' approach? Of course you could always claim you were being ironic when you say "typically western" but then doesn't that either make your response, by your own definition, "typically western," or, if we accept your original claim that such generalities are "painfully reductionist and essentialist," render it meaningless?
Or are you claiming that it's OK to say "typically western" but not "typically eastern"? Or just not OK for Momus to say either?
Re: Some questions
Date: 2009-12-25 02:52 am (UTC)One escape is to switch terms and disciplines, and thereby switch contexts and frames. "Essentialism" is a "crime" (an inevitable and universal one for all who use language) within a certain anglo-saxon and PC mindset determined by empiricist philosophy. Switch the term to "archetypes" and you're in a poetic-psychoanalytic, Germanic-Oriental context. Rather than a "universal crime" encouraging tedious accusations and counter-accusations of "hypocrisy" (and how quickly that anglo-empirical puritan tradition takes on the character of a witch hunt!), the topic becomes an interpretative-speculative quest to discover what unites mankind. Differences encountered become "good differences", things we can learn from, not contradictions or hypocrisies to be logically-linguistically "resolved".
(no subject)
Date: 2009-12-25 02:55 am (UTC)