imomus: (Default)
[personal profile] imomus
Dramatic and interesting things -- things that only I can see, via the "View Recent Comments" button -- sometimes happen at the end of old Click Opera threads, often when people arrive here by googling. A case in point is the dialogue that's been happening this week at the end of Superlegitimacy: passion and ecstasy of a Tokyo train driver.



Superlegitimacy is one of Click Opera's more significant posts, one I've rewritten and published. It appeared in a catalogue about the artist Matt Stokes and will pop up in The Book of Scotlands, transmuted for comic effect to a Scottish setting: "Yesterday I took one of Edinburgh's beautiful new trams, from Pilton to Restalrig. I was standing in the first car, right behind the driver."

[Error: unknown template video]

Shortly after I rewrote the Superlegitimacy piece with a Scottish setting, an American train driver calling himself "Delta" started adding comments to the original thread.

"While I understand -- at least superficially -- the notion of superlegitimacy in Japanese living culture, in sharp contrast to western individualism mistaken as legitimacy, I have to wonder whether the train driver's actions really betray superlegitimacy," he wrote.

"I am a train driver myself, in the US (train engineer is the term we use here) and I see the difference daily: train drivers is what we do for a living, not who we are, and we would rather be scientists, movie stars or politicians to earn legitimacy. I personally disagree with this notion and tend to see my profession as a deeper calling, which, in a sense, guarantees its legitimacy for me.

[Error: unknown template video]

"I have no doubt that the Japanese train driver in the video wears his uniform on off days and may even be addressed as Mr. Train Driver by his wife -- this is who he is and without his role, Japan could not survive.

"Still, his actions betray something quite different: ritual habits. In our profession, many actions must be ritualistic, even in western societies. The complexity of the job requires that the driver practice good habits -- really, rituals -- or run the danger of forgetting something critical. The job requires persistent focus, continual analysis of conditions ahead and constant multitasking. In an environment such as this, practicing rituals helps simplify what is already too complicated.

"This may indeed be little more than "mirror, signal, manoeuvre."

"Still, fascinating for western eyes to see. Do you have a longer video of that fellow you could post?

[Error: unknown template video]

I responded enthusiastically: "Wow, great to hear from a real train driver on this thread! And I take your point about ritual existing even in the West, and being a necessary part of the job. The film I posted is all the video I have, alas, but there may be other video of Japanese train drivers on YouTube."

"Very good point," said Delta, and then went off and found the videos I've embedded on this page, "in which it is explained why these engineers make certain pointing motions".

[Error: unknown template video]

After watching these videos, Delta noted one where drivers (or possibly conductors) are changing shifts. "They seem to compare watches (having standard time on railroads is critical), exchange words and salute. Another ritual."

[Error: unknown template video]

Ritual becomes Delta's explanation for the strange movements I'd noticed in my Tokyo train driver: "Looking at the last engineer, it seems to me that what he is doing is "going through the motions." Before taking any action, such as throttle out, he checks conditions outside (e.g., the signal governing his movement), and inside his cab (indicators, doors-closed lights, etc.). ALL engineers must go through these checks before moving. It seems that Japanese engineers are required to actually point physically to items being checked. This will reinforce completeness for the checklist and assure that no brain lapses happen."

Delta concludes: "Ours is an extremely high responsibility. I like the Japanese approach.

"Again, however, this does not mean that your original point is invalid."

(no subject)

Date: 2008-10-05 10:31 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] skazat.livejournal.com
While in Basel, my friend pointed out that the railway conductors from the local routes are in sort of a secret club, or part of their union - or something similar, but not quite that.

If a train driver goes on holiday, say to Amsterdam, they can meet up with their Amsterdam tran driver Brothers and well,


drive the Amsterdam trains!


Quite the honor, I'd say.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-10-05 11:00 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ofenheizung.livejournal.com
Britain had an incredible railway culture until the 1990s. My father worked for the railway and that meant that the whole family was involved. I learned to play music in the railway brass band, played badminton in the railway badminton club. There was a very clear sense that it wasn't about the money. It was a kind of solidarity, culture of service to the state and communal thinking that is impossible to imagine in Britain now. More's the pity.
Dr. O.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-10-05 11:44 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
My grandfather on my father's side worked all his life as a clerk with the railways. He had free travel all over the UK, but he hardly used it, except for trips to Helmsdale to do lay preaching (he was deeply religious).

(no subject)

Date: 2008-10-05 12:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kumakouji.livejournal.com
That last video you posted; everyone looks so crisp and sharp and sophisticated. There's even a young female commuter in a smart black military style coat with the top button done up. Thanks to the western Babyboomers and their business-casual approach to workwear, you never see people in proper uniforms here anymore.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-10-05 02:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bugpowered.livejournal.com
There's even a young female commuter

And a sexy one at that...

(no subject)

Date: 2008-10-05 03:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kumakouji.livejournal.com
She's very attractive.

Everyone looks and acts quite militarian, but it's softened by the lack of a masculine presence. You can detect a sense of self-consciousness underneath the nonchalance and regiment, especially apparent in that young female commuter. towards the end the camera is then turned on the blond, blue-eyed, foreign camerawoman who gives a knowing glance to the camera -- This level of stiltedness is a strange, unfamiliar relic of the past in the West. You retrospectively start to wonder whether being filmed by a foreigner, knowing the foreigner finds it all quite odd, prompted these Japanese people to become so self-aware. The "us & them" dynamic suddenly comes into play.

The uniforms, the voyeurism, the vulnerability, the young women... you could cut the sexual atmosphere with a knife. The whole video is really sexy.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-10-05 03:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
Japanese trains are very sexy, it's undeniable. It's actually a great advert for trains being more appealing than cars. If only we could somehow achieve the same results in the West! Only the Paris metro really comes close, though. And possibly the L train between Manhattan and Brooklyn.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-10-05 03:26 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
... sounds like you haven't spent much time on the rail routes of the Randstadt.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-10-05 03:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kumakouji.livejournal.com
"Japanese trains are very sexy, it's undeniable."

Clearly. You must have heard of 花電車 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women-only_train_car) (hana-densha - Flower Trains) women-only carriages. So many young women were reporting that they were getting groped on trains they had to designate women-only areas!

And take a look at this sign:

Image

Signs warning men about showing mooseknuckle (http://www.ehow.com/how_2095435_avoid-having-moose-knuckle.html)? Do these people have sex on the brain?

Trams

Date: 2008-10-05 03:54 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
What do you think about Edinburgh's reintroduction of trams?


CS

(no subject)

Date: 2008-10-05 04:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] count-vronsky.livejournal.com
sex and golf (http://yourmonkeycalled.com/post/52393497/ok-etiquette-posters-youve-gone-too-far-when) apparently kuma :)

(no subject)

Date: 2008-10-05 05:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] eclectiktronik.livejournal.com
Time flies by when you're the driver of a train.....according to these chaps anyhow.
http://www.last.fm/music/Half+Man+Half+Biscuit/_/Time+Flies+By+(When+You're+the+Driver+of+a+Train)

(no subject)

Date: 2008-10-05 05:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cap-scaleman.livejournal.com
Hmm, though Paris should drop the wheels amde out of rubber.

"I Often Dream Of Trains" or...

Date: 2008-10-05 05:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cheapsurrealist.livejournal.com
..."It Takes A Lot To Laugh, It Takes A Train to Cry"

My Dad worked as a Fireman on the Railroad. He shoveled coal into the firebox (http://members.kos.net/sdgagnon/st5.jpg) of a steam engine.

He could talk for long time about coal shoveling techniques that would ensure an even fire.

It was a lot of work keeping that 2200 degree Fahrenheit fire going just right. He said it was the Fireman who really ran the train.

Part bluster, part truth.

He gave it up when I was very young. Too much time away from the family.

I think he lost a large part of his identity. But the diesel engine was about to take it from him anyway.

I think of him when I hear phrases like "build up enough steam" or "I ran out of steam"



(no subject)

Date: 2008-10-05 06:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] akabe.livejournal.com
the uniforms may be proper but take a look at their expression and it's clear that it's nothing more than a superficial semi-ironic play -- superlegitimacy ? i'm glad the concept's finally found a good home in a fictional book of scotlands. (on a more sinister note most research on ww2 and a great deal of fiction/drama/art for the past few decades shows that no kamikaze really believed themselves to be Mr kamikaze, neither did their wives. rather the result of bad pressure, bad drugs and , yes, bad ideology.)

Re: Trams

Date: 2008-10-05 06:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
All in favour! Here in Berlin we only have them in the former communist half of the city. Now Edinburgh will be one step closer to communism, perhaps. Well, transport communism, anyway. As long as Brian Soutar isn't allowed to get his grubby mitts on them.

Re: Trams

Date: 2008-10-05 06:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
Grr, fucken' Souter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Soutar)!

"In March 2007, he donated £500 000 to the Scottish National Party, citing an imbalance of funding within Scottish politics. One month later, in April 2007, the SNP's commitment (made at the party's 2006 conference) to re-regulate the bus network was dropped from the 2007 manifesto, although the SNP denies any direct link."

(no subject)

Date: 2008-10-05 06:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] count-vronsky.livejournal.com
Southern Virginia was basically built by coal and the railroads (and agriculture and moonshine), most notably, the Norfolk and Western (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norfolk_and_Western_Railway), and train culture runs deep here. The great photographer O. Winston Link (http://www.mocp.org/collections/permanent/link_o_winston.php) captured the look and feel of the steam engines, and the tiny trackside towns in the '50 and '60s.




(no subject)

Date: 2008-10-05 07:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kumakouji.livejournal.com
I'm not sure how much I buy into the super-legitimacy of Japanese culture. Stilted regiment isn't the same as legitimacy of motivation -- feeling compelled to act with robot-like efficiency isnt necessarily a sign that a person sees himself as an important cog in the wheel of society, taking his role within society extremely seriously. Like you've implied, it can be a result of social pressure which is something quite different.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-10-05 08:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
My use of the concept of legitimacy comes from German sociologist Max Weber. He identified (http://www.mdx.ac.uk/WWW/STUDY/XWEB.HTM) four sources of legitimacy:

(a) By tradition; a belief in the legitimacy of what has always existed;

(b) by virtue of affectual attitudes, especially emotional, legitimizing the validity of what is newly revealed or a model to imitate;

(c) by virtue of a rational belief in its absolute value, thus lending it the validity of an absolute and final commitment;

(d) because it has been established in a manner which is recognised to be legal. This legality may be treated as legitimate in either of two ways: on the one hand, it may derive from a voluntary agreement of the interested parties on the relevant terms. On the other hand, it may be imposed on the basis of what is held to be a legitimate authority over the relevant persons and a corresponding claim to their obedience....

(no subject)

Date: 2008-10-05 08:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] foggy-eyes.livejournal.com
From the Mooseknuckle website (so informative!): "Avoid wearing tight jeans from the disco era, which tend to accentuate and even celebrate the creation of a moose knuckle. "

(no subject)

Date: 2008-10-05 08:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kumakouji.livejournal.com
All social norms and etiquette come under those 4 categories. I'm not sure how the Japanese are Superlegitimate. Here are examples of each of those categories existing in the west (and there are many):

Category A eg. The belief that humans are social animals.

Category B eg. Organic farming is more "ethical" and "natural", leading to "better" crops.

Category C eg. Managing your eating habits to maintain a healthy weight and to obtain sufficient nutrition, outside of merely following your hunger.

Category D eg. (this one is very broad) Blindly following the advice of someone with more experience, having faith their experience is worth more than your inexperienced judgment.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-10-05 09:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
Super is just an intensifier in that phrase.

My first impressions of Japan were that this was what Victorian England must have felt like, so I don't say it's necessarily an Asian phenomenon. But Confucian attitudes and collectivist attitudes and a certain fetishism (as well as a "horizontal authoritarianism", "society as god" and all those other things I mentioned in the original article) make Japanese society feel much more intensely legitimate than our own "maverick" and "punk" societies, where everybody is supposed to be challenging everything all the time, out for himself, and so on.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-10-05 10:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kumakouji.livejournal.com
But couldn't it be argued that western individualism is "by virtue of affectual attitudes, especially emotional, legitimizing the validity of what is newly revealed or a model to imitate"?

Western individualism is about the legitimacy of being true to ones self, true to your emotions. But this individualism allows us to relate within a group, thats its main function.

Re: Trams

Date: 2008-10-05 10:42 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)

Good way of looking at it, although I think they're likely to cause subsidence and the castle might fall over.



CS

(no subject)

Date: 2008-10-05 10:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] slime-slime-sly.livejournal.com
is that true?Thats pretty cool!

(no subject)

Date: 2008-10-06 11:40 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cerulicante.livejournal.com
When I was in Tokyo, I saw those signs. They're instructions to concede space to others and not take up more space in the seat than needed. "When the seats are packed, you have to make concessions. This is called 'manners'." There are also signs in the stations that say "do it on the mountain" that instruct riders not to carry bulky backpacks or eat on the train.

I was in Shinjuku station and I was glad that I was surrounded by Japanese. It was all very cordial and people were very polite. Osaka is an entirely different matter...

(no subject)

Date: 2008-10-06 11:50 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cerulicante.livejournal.com
Most of the off-duty train station/railway employees I've talked to just see it as a job they can be part of. Belonging to something is an important part of Japanese everyday life. However, most of them would quit in a heartbeat to pursue their dreams if they didn't have families/mortgages/etc.

It's distinctly non-romantic and very, very Western, indeed.


Wait...you HAVE actually talked to real Japanese before, right? Sometimes, I think you prefer fetishizing Japanese from a distance or in "safe" environments with like-minded Japanese rather than soiling yourself with the sordidness of a capitalistic Asian society. It won't kill you if you eat yakitori with some drunken salarymen from NEC or Sony, you know. You might learn something, too. I always do.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-10-06 12:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
You know, I'm prepared to believe you might even have spoken to a Japanese woman, too... more than once!

Engineer as distracted object of affection

Date: 2008-10-07 02:16 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-train-hobbyists_slider_10-2oct05,0,3316264.story