imomus: (Default)
[personal profile] imomus
Question: What do these statements have in common?

"James Blunt is just as much a "rock" act as, say, the Arctic Monkeys." (Caroline Sullivan, from an article entitled "Rock of all Ages" in The Guardian.)

"But surely every genre or revived genre has been the same." (Reader comment after the same article.)

"Are European or Japanese news stands so different?" (Reader comment after Click Opera entry about American news-stands.)

"Any old legitimised artist is pretty much as good or as useless as any old legitimised anything else." (Reader comment after Click Opera entry on being an artist.)

"What will we do when the new ethics breaks down under the weight of the same inherent flaws as the old ethics?" (Reader comment after Click Opera discussion of ethics in art.)

Answer: These are examples of what I call "Procrustean Seeing".

Who is or was Procrustes?

"Procrustes, whose name means "he who stretches", was arguably the most interesting of Theseus's challenges on the way to becoming a hero. He kept a house by the side of the road where he offered hospitality to passing strangers, who were invited in for a pleasant meal and a night's rest in his very special bed. Procrustes described it as having the unique property that its length exactly matched whomsoever lay down upon it. What Procrustes didn't volunteer was the method by which this "one-size-fits-all" was achieved, namely as soon as the guest lay down Procrustes went to work upon him, stretching him on the rack if he was too short for the bed and chopping off his legs if he was too long. Theseus turned the tables on Procrustes, fatally adjusting him to fit his own bed." (Mythweb)

When Theseus served up poetic justice, fitting Procrustes to his own bed by cutting off his head and feet, it may have been the end of a man, but it was just the beginning of a metaphor. Now, when we speak of a "Procrustean bed", we mean an arbitrary standard to which exact conformity is forced.

The enemies of Socialism have often likened its emphasis on equality to Procrustes. But I'm not talking about equality of result, but equality of perception, making one size of thought fit all possible instances and cases. What's annoying about this response is that it declares a commentary which notices difference or specificity (the specificity of American magazines, for instance) irrelevant or unremarkable by declaring that all magazines are more or less the same.

In terms of my "seven deadly intellectual sins", Procrustean Seeing is a deadly combination of "pompous univeralism" and "moronic cynicism". It usually contains the idea that there's no point in distinguishing one thing from another (in other words, recognizing difference) because "it's all the same wherever you go". (Cue up my rant against Paul McCartney's "Ebony and Ivory" song.)

I don't say it's motivated by evil. Procrustean Seeing has a lot of admirable motives. It may be motivated by an anxiety about declaring one thing better than another, a desire to avoid judgementalism. It may be motivated by the idea of equality of opportunity. Hey, we all have an equal opportunity to become fascists, disregard trifling historical details about Prussian militarism, and don't throw the first stone, because we all live in the same glass house! Procrustean Seeing can also be an attempt to prevent outgroups having negative stuff projected onto them, to prevent people from being isolated and bullied. (Cue Sting's song about how "the Russians love their children too".)

The trouble is, Procrustean Seeing is Panglossian. Like Dr Pangloss, it prefers to put its head in the clouds and see universal unity. The glass is half full, not half empty! All is for the best (or, reassuringly, the worst) in the best (or worst) of all possible worlds!

A bigger problem: Procrustean Seeing, one-size-fits-all, is teleological. Teleology (from telos, meaning end, purpose) is the supposition that there is design, purpose, directive principle, or finality in the works and processes of nature. It's a bit like anthropomorphism, the tendency to project human-like characteristics onto animals. It projects the kind of meanings we can understand onto a universe which doesn't share our conceptions. It assumes there are purposes in the way the universe is structured, the kind of purposes we ourselves have. As I sang in my song "The Sadness of Things", "for you, when things go wrong, they go wrong for all the right reasons... and the universe exists for the convenience of your feelings".

But why would it "all be the same in the end"? What would be the reason that nothing would be different from anything else? Why would such a strange universe exist? So that, like Procrustes, we could "correct" difference with mutilation and murder? Does pompous universalism always contain this implicit threat, the idea that we won't recognize your difference from us so that, should we come to invade you and (for instance) destroy your museum, nothing will really be lost?

Donald Rumsfeld, as he stood on the steps of the demolished Iraqi art museum, is said to have asked: "How many vases do they need, anyway?"

Donald, you utter bastard, those weren't just vases, they were encoded cultural particularities, the very DNA of character. They were difference itself. Let's not smash it up, either with our deeds, or with our thoughts.
Page 1 of 4 << [1] [2] [3] [4] >>

(no subject)

Date: 2006-05-12 02:47 pm (UTC)

(no subject)

Date: 2006-05-12 02:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
BACK! (Or a ghost?) Oh dear, I fear for our collective sanity now. Or at least our ability to discuss anything so boring as "Procrustean Seeing".

(no subject)

Date: 2006-05-12 02:59 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Right. So newsstands on subway platforms can be different from newsstands on the street, and newstands in one neighbourhood can be different from those in others, right? Everything else would be procrusting reality to fit one's views. Agreed.

der.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-05-12 03:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] silenceinspades.livejournal.com
this is the best live journal post about procrustean seeing since the last live journal post about procrustean seeing and most likely it is just as good as any future posts about procrustean seeing.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-05-12 03:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
Well, that touches an interesting issue. At some point, we all want our particular observations to hitch their wagon to the star of universality. Otherwise, we risk a sort of Asperger's Syndrome in which everything is just a cluster of meaningless details.

I shall start preparing immediately an entry on the intellectual error of "Meaningless Empiricism".

(no subject)

Date: 2006-05-12 03:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
In my defense, though, I'll say that my claim to universality in that news-stands piece wasn't as big as the claims I'm criticizing here. I was only claiming that wherever you cut American phenomena you discover America. Whereas my opponents there were claiming that wherever you cut American phenomena you discover, in fact, the entire world. In other words, I was arguing for specificity and difference (at least at the national level), and they were arguing for universality and sameness.

And this debate is complicated by the fact that America does actually consider itself a kind of Aleph or Utopia, the place which is no place and all places, the model, the Universal. This is, I think, America's most sinister and incorrect belief about itself. It's what I was addressing in the entry Post-American (http://imomus.livejournal.com/179537.html).

(no subject)

Date: 2006-05-12 03:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tsenft.livejournal.com
After all the snarky comments above, I am now wondering what is wrong with me that I loved this entry!

(no subject)

Date: 2006-05-12 03:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
Two more thoughts: the comment about news stands being the same all over the world is an attempt to shift my emphasis on the American-ness of the American news stand towards an emphasis on the sameness of the press all over the world. In other words, this commenter would prefer us to look at inherent properties of the printed media than at national differences.

Also, I've noticed a lot of Americans feel comfortable with statements about individuals and about universals (ie they'll happily make statements about "everyone in the world" or about "individuals"), but not about groups, the intermediate level between those two. In other words, if difference has to be located, Americans would prefer it to be located either nowhere (universals) or everywhere (specificities, individuals).

(no subject)

Date: 2006-05-12 03:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pyrop.livejournal.com
Oh, those Click Opera readers, they're all the same.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-05-12 03:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nembute.livejournal.com
I just stumbled across this post while reading dragonbait's friends page.

Damn good.

It was worth reading every word.

Thank you.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-05-12 03:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
Thanks, Terri!

Caroline Sullivan's assertion about rock being pop annoys me, because I find the binary between rock and pop a useful one. I want to take sides! I want there to be a big ideas-clash, a big lifestyle clash, in which different values, different views of what's important in life (authenticity versus artifice, for example) come into play! And I don't want either side to win!

Saying "It's all the same, really" is so wishy-washy! So disappointing! So monoculturally alarming! "You mean, I have nothing to choose from? No alternatives to embrace? No stand to make?"

(no subject)

Date: 2006-05-12 03:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rhodri.livejournal.com
How many other ways is Ebony and Ivory flawed? It assumes a 7:5 ratio between white and black! And ignores the fact that B, C E and F are so bigoted that they're only prepared to put up with one black neighbour each.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-05-12 03:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rhodri.livejournal.com
Indeed. Pop artists don't put one foot on the monitor, for example.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-05-12 03:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] henryperri.livejournal.com
ur kinda hot.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-05-12 03:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
Ha, quite so!

Personally, I'm still struggling with the problem that you can't have harmony in a world where all the notes are the same. Harmony is resonating difference, so I'd prefer McCartney to have sung "We all know that people are different wherever you go".

(no subject)

Date: 2006-05-12 03:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rhodri.livejournal.com
"Stevie. I've got a great idea for a song. One note. One, long, fat note. Complete concord, a one-ness. It's like a metaphor, you know?

No, you can't do a harmonica solo."

(no subject)

Date: 2006-05-12 03:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rhodri.livejournal.com
I've found that this line can often work in seedy bars, also.

Procr....something

Date: 2006-05-12 03:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] klasensjo.livejournal.com
I suppose in some ways the nazis came a long way fighting Procrustean seeing. They surely saw differences and when they were finished with the undesirables, they would probably have started weeding out the fatsos (Goring), the geeks (Goebbels) and eventually the ones with the funny moustaches.
On the other hand, they were very uniformly dressed, so I might be wrong. I'm going back to procrastinating instead.

Re: Procr....something

Date: 2006-05-12 03:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
One of the worst legacies of the Nazis is that they made emphasis on difference look inherently murderous. Now all you have to do is say something about cultural or racial difference and people are all "Ah, I suppose you're going to measure my skull now, are you? And put me in a concentration camp?"

The thing is, difference only leads to murder if you're a murderer. The thing to condemn is murder, not difference.

Re: Procr....something

Date: 2006-05-12 04:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] klasensjo.livejournal.com
Oh, you're right, of course.

I sometimes struggle with Procrustean seeing. Society tells you to overlook things like race, which sometimes leads to bigger problems in the end than recognizing our differences (and finding the good in this).

As all humans (oops I Procrustenized) I rationalize to simplify my existence. I see patterns in the world around me. These patterns are sometimes so generalized that they lead to gross mistakes on my part, but I know that they have helped me in most cases, so I keep generalizing.
As I have grown older, I now constantly see exceptions to my previous patterns. On one hand, it makes my reasoning more logical, on the other hand it makes life harder, because I have recognized so many grey areas. It would be easy to say that everything that is good, feels fresh and is constantly reinventing itself is pop, whereas everything that went stale is rock. I know this is not the case, but life would was so much easier wit my Procrustean seeing. This grey zone is a dilemma.

bastards

Date: 2006-05-12 04:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fascicle.livejournal.com

Also, the guy who seems to have stumbled deliberately in
the Fitzwilliam Museum, Cambridge, to smash ancient Qing
Chinese vases. Crass demolition is not art: this was the
chap's first recorded "accident", but he has gone on to
fall in further costly ways, casting doubt on that first
destruction's happenstance.

***

The World Service on Wednesday had the first of a pair of
programmes on what the Yankee Yahoos have done to Babylon
(coat archaeological significant sites with gravel so that
tanks can drive/park on it, grinding new stone fragments
deep into the historical layers, for a start: part of setting
up camp on other's culture). Joyless Vultures, indeed.

Relativism

Date: 2006-05-12 04:28 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Is relativism the opposite to Procrustean Seeing?
And in your polarized world, is it the "right" side to choose? Or is it as exactly as useless view of the world as universalism?
Is it, in fact, the same shit?
You see the world through your own eyes no matter what.
/Michael

(no subject)

Date: 2006-05-12 04:43 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I miss the candy stripes this potato sack cloth just isn't samey enough.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-05-12 04:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anglerfish96.livejournal.com
I know you sort of addressed this in an earlier addendum/comment, but your argument seems rather dualistic. Not acknowledging that there are different levels of "procrustean seeing" is ignoring the matter of scale. All songs are songs. Whether all rock is pop or whatever is arguable. Whether their quality hinges on one's political beliefs or not is arguable. These are levels, aspects. It seems contradictory to label one's choice to ignore particular aspects in order to broaden one's experience "procrustean". Quality of seeing or creating, in my mind, is relative, but this relativity in itself is relative to scale. If that makes any sense.

Were these past few entries, then, an elaborate social experiment designed to trap us in your procrustean argument? I was a bit skeptical yesterday when, out of character, you criticized an element of Japanese society.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-05-12 04:50 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
BUt what I don't understand is how does one make comments about larger things like what America is, when we haven't experienced all of America. And by that I mean that I certainly haven't and when I read your bit about the magazine stands it seemed obvious that you were talking about the urban experience on the east coast of the US. Cities that are far removed from the cultures of areas like suburban California, the pacific northwest, and certainly the bush-states in the middle. Further saying "America" to me seems like a universalism rather than the groups within that define it.Groups that I think many americans would identify themselves with, before recognizing themselves as Americans.

I wonder if Americans are obsessed with being "United" because historically and at the present moment we just aren't. Certainly there are enclaves throughout the country in which English is not the Lingua Franca, and the televised christian holidays don't happen.

I grew up on the east coast with a family of Korean-Americans on my left and Indian-American family on my right. So which group should I attempt to aggrandize my own feelings about? With all the possibilities that were presented, the seemingly simple idea of "American" is usually the last to occur.

So yes I do have trouble talking about groups, cause I have so much trouble recognizing where the borders begin and end.

Yet at the same time the majority of American humor and media is based around parceling everyone into groups of people as in the whole hyphenated american debates.
Page 1 of 4 << [1] [2] [3] [4] >>