imomus: (Default)
[personal profile] imomus
I haven't commented yet on the main news story of last week; the deaths, embassy arson and angry protests sparked by the Danish cartoons. My comment is: Huntington was right.

In the 1990s, after the collapse of communism, right wing philosophers like Francis Fukuyama and Bernard-Henry Lévy started talking about "the end of ideology". The West had won, Western concepts of property, the family, rights and the individual would prevail, there was a "New World Order" in which we would all simply trade happily and globally with each other, sharing an interest in prosperity.

Long before 9/11, in fact back in 1993, Samuel P. Huntington contradicted this "end of history" idea in the Foreign Affairs magazine essay which launched the phrase "the clash of civilizations". Ideology in the form of the struggle between the competing rationalities of communism and capitalism may have ended, he said, but conflict would continue along cultural and religious lines.

Huntington identified the following cultures:



1. The Christian West, centered on Europe and North America but also including Australia and New Zealand.
2. Eastern Europe and Russia (Orthodox, Slavic).
3. Latin America.
4. The Muslim world of the Middle East, North Africa, Central Asia, the northwest of South Asia (Pakistan, Bangladesh, and parts of India), Malaysia, Indonesia.
5. Hindu civilization, located chiefly in India, Nepal, and the Hindu diaspora.
6. The Sinic civilization of China, Korea, Vietnam, Singapore, Taiwan.
7. Africa south of the Sahara desert.
8. The Buddhist areas of Northern India, Nepal, Bhutan, Mongolia, Buryatia, Kalmykia, Siberia, Myanmar, Thailand, Cambodia, Laos and Tibet.
9. Japan, considered an independent civilization.

What I call "pompous universalism" (the tendency of dominant cultures to think of their own ideas as neutral and universal; only other cultures' ideas, apparently, are vested and situated) is covered by Huntington, who says that "the Western belief that the West's values and political systems are universal is naïve and that continued insistence towards democratization and universal norms will only further antagonize other civilizations." This bullheaded "pompous universalism" is exactly why the West is losing in Iraq, and it gives Bin Laden his continued leverage, helping him (and Islamic fundamentalist parties) create power for themselves all over the Islamic world. Applied to "the universal right to freedom of expression", pompous universalism also explains the tragic misunderstandings behind the Danish cartoons affair.

I like Huntington's concern to separate modernization from Westernization (he stresses that Western individualism pre-dates and has different sources from the West's own economic modernization). His speculations are interesting too. According to Wikipedia, "Huntington identifies the Sinic civilization, with its rapid economic growth and distinct cultural values, to be the most powerful long-term threat to the West. He sees Islamic civilization as a potential ally to China, both having more revisionist goals and sharing common conflicts with other civilizations. Huntington also believes that the demographic and economic growth of other civilizations will result in a much more multipolar civilizational system. The demographic decline of the West, combined with its inability to unify and even a decadent society, risked significant dangers.

"Huntington labels the Orthodox, Hindu, and Japanese civilizations as "swing" civilizations, with the potential to move in different directions vis-a-vis the West, perhaps mostly tied to the progress in their relations with the Sinic and Islamic groupings. Huntington argues that an "Islamic-Confucian connection" is emerging in which China will cooperate more closely with Iran, Pakistan, and other states to augment its international position."

I talked with Hisae about this at the weekend as we bathed in the snowy landscape of Kinosaki, on the Sea of Japan. We both agree that Japan warrants being called a separate civilization. Hisae (who's half Korean, by the way) thinks Japan will "swing" with the West, but I'm not so sure; I think the high point of Japanese identification with the West was reached in the 1980s, and that Japanese in the future will be less rather than more Western than they are today. American influence is on the wane, Chinese influence on the rise. I'm not sure how close Japan will want to get to China, though. There seem to be huge culture gaps (as well as historical grievances) stopping that. Then again, Hisae's mother commutes between Seoul, Shanghai and Osaka buying and selling clothes, and in terms of Japan's trading patterns (rather than cultural patterns or diplomatic patterns) that's not so very unusual.
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(no subject)

Date: 2006-02-13 04:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rfmcdpei.livejournal.com
One problem with his theory is that it doesn't allow for intermediate cases, or for changing orientations. Is Argentina Western? What about Ukraine? What about ...

These critiques come from the margins, yes, but interesting things happen there.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-02-13 04:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
I can't agree about "changing orientations". Huntington talks a lot about these, as represented in this chart (thick lines represent more conflictual relationships):

Image

(no subject)

Date: 2006-02-13 04:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
This comment by Stanley Kurtz (http://www.parapundit.com/archives/000377.html) on the conflicts (and overlaps) between Fukuyama and Huntington is very interesting:

"The greatest question perhaps may be whether modernization must inevitably cause a culture to place greater emphasis on individualism and individual rights. A popular interpretation of Western history is that industrialization created the conditions that led the rise of individualism. This may be a false reading of history. The concept of individual human rights predates industrialization and modernization in Western Civilization by many centuries. Today while Muslim societies possess far more technology than Americans of two centuries ago those Muslim societies of today place less emphasis on human rights than American culture then."

There's also an interesting point at the end about an internal threat to Western culture from multiculturalists, diversity fans and pluralists who want to detach the West from Eurocentrism. But what is the West if it's just the sum of all the people living (diversely and differently) within it? For instance, if it's as much extended families as nuclear families, and as much intolerance of offence against the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him, even in Denmark) as tolerance of freedom of expression?

A (perhaps) related aside...

Date: 2006-02-13 05:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] peripherus-max.livejournal.com
Of course, being the famous atheist that you are, Nick (http://www.atheistalliance.org/aaw/atheistmusicians_ftom.html)... I must ask where atheism lies on the chart above, and relatedly... in your opinion, which nation state would most likely "swing" it's way in times of crisis?

Also, is the scientific method a Western idea?

Also, an interesting speech yesterday in Berlin (plz see my blog)...

Re: A (perhaps) related aside...

Date: 2006-02-13 05:36 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
Atheism lies in all the territories demarcated, you can find it just by tacking a post- onto the religious description. I'm a post-Protestant, for instance. I don't believe that my atheism is the same atheism as a post-Hindu would have. Our god-shaped holes would have very different shapes (hers would obviously have to be big enough to fit a whole pantheon, and accommodate lots of missing elephant trunks etc).

The scientific method is not just Western. For instance, left to its own devices the West would still be using the Roman numeral system (I, II, III, IV, oh, forget it!) rather than the Arabic system we have today. However, that doesn't mean that scientific method transcends cultural systems. It just merges several.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-02-13 05:37 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] charleshatcher.livejournal.com
God, I hate religion.

Re: A (perhaps) related aside...

Date: 2006-02-13 05:45 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
I'm afraid I don't share your "Punk Rock 101" sentiments (though I applaud you for situating them culturally rather than claiming them to be universals). I don't agree that:

- the right to offend preserves society
- societies without critical voices fail
- all forms of nonviolent political expression, especially satire, are things that we should be willing to defend with our lives

I also think the things Ayaan Hirsi Ali says need to have the "I think" bit stressed. You can't say that someone (especially not the figurehead of a major world religion) was objectively wrong to say this and that. You can simply say that you disagree with certain positions, and that you hold other ones.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-02-13 05:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
As opposed to "Buddha, I hate religion", presumably.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-02-13 06:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cheapsurrealist.livejournal.com
I think we might be better off if opium was the opiate of the people.

Here in the U.S. the swing toward religious fundamentalism led by radical clerics like Pat Robertson seems to get stronger every day.

Here is an excerpt fro Gore Vidal's "President Jonah": (http://www.truthdig.com/dig/item/20060207_president_jonah_redux/)

The British historian Charles Freeman published an extended discussion of the transition that took place during the late Roman empire, the title of which could serve as a capsule summary of our current president: "The Closing of the Western Mind."

Mr. Bush, God knows, is no Augustine; but Freeman points to the latter as the epitome of a more general process that was underway in the fourth century: namely, ‘the gradual subjection of reason to faith and authority.’ This is what we are seeing today, and it is a process that no society can undergo and still remain free. Yet it is a process of which administration officials, along with much of the American population, are aggressively proud.” In fact, close observers of this odd presidency note that Bush, like his evangelical base, believes he is on a mission from God and that faith trumps empirical evidence. Berman quotes a senior White House adviser who disdains what he calls the “reality-based” community, to which Berman sensibly responds: “If a nation is unable to perceive reality correctly, and persists in operating on the basis of faith-based delusions, its ability to hold its own in the world is pretty much foreclosed.”

(no subject)

Date: 2006-02-13 06:09 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
"Applied to 'the universal right to freedom of expression', pompous universalism also explains the tragic misunderstandings behind the Danish cartoons affair."

No, not at all. What does a Danish newspaper have to do with Iran? Nothing. This is more about Islam's own pompous universalism, expecting that everyone else play by their rules. Of course, you'd rather frame it the other way around because for you, what is exotic is correct.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-02-13 06:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kementari2.livejournal.com
I think Anonymous-san might be right in this instance.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-02-13 06:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
The fact is, globalization cuts both ways. It doesn't just bring the standards of London to Karachi, it brings the standards of Karachi to London. There are going to be encounters between people with different cultural standards. Rather than insisting on the universality of our ideologies (whether the "right to offend" or the "ban on representations") we need to work on our politeness and consideration -- flexible, tactical and contextual skills of interpersonal relation. Otherwise, basically, we all die.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-02-13 06:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
I like Gore Vidal, and I like that essay, but I think in this instance he's rather off the mark about Bush. Yes, Bush prefers faith to reason, but I see no evidence that he "believes he is on a mission from God". He seems to have very few Christian values. He doesn't believe in turning the other cheek, or that the meek will inherit the earth, or that the rich won't enter the kingdom of heaven, or that swords should be turned into plowshares. He believes in charity only insofar as it seems to absolve the state of the responsibility of looking after the unfortunate.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-02-13 06:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] riotdorrrk.livejournal.com
where do the Buddhist civilizations fit in, in the future? still detached from all worldly procedings?

Re: A (perhaps) related aside...

Date: 2006-02-13 06:45 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] peripherus-max.livejournal.com
To be fair, I did take Ayaan Hirsi Ali's remarks slightly out of their total context. Her Berlin speech can be found here in its entirety:
http://www.welt.de/z/plog/blog.php/the_free_west/the_free_wests_weblog/2006/02/10/the_right_to_offend

It should also be noted that the threatening fatwa stabbed to filmmaker Theo Van Gogh's corpse with a knife last year was directed towards Ali, so I'm inclined to think that act has influenced her decision not to tread so politely on the subject.

I see what you mean. But, to be honest, the only part of my opinion that you've forced me to reconsider is that "the right to offend preserves society." I do believe that free speech only works inside an atmosphere of nonviolence and genuine listening. Granted, that is quite an idealistic situation, especially these days. So, is the solution to quell inciteful speech directed at notoriously violent groups? To me, this reasoning seems a variant of that which led to the rise of Nazism during the 1930's. A fear-based stifling of government criticality that led to murderous totalitarianism.

I only abandon my use of the phrase "in my humble opinion" when theocracies purposefully step on my toes.

Also, as you may know, the American animated series "South Park" has Jesus as one its regular characters. In a recent episode, its creators portrayed a statue of the Virgin Mary with blood exploding out of her ass onto the face of the Pope. Of course, there was a smattering of protest here, but most American Catholics and Jews understood (or seemed to understand.. I am neither Catholic nor a Jew) that this kind of stuff is the price paid for free speech. I'd argue that most fundamentalist Muslims in Denmark do not.

At the risk of sounding republican, I do believe that it's time for them to get over it. And it's time for many sections of the worldwide media to drop their double-standards.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-02-13 06:50 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] peripherus-max.livejournal.com
This begs the question... where do we begin asking fundamentalist Islam to insert tact into their anti-Semitic, anti-homosexual, and aruably anti-woman "satire?" I am being kind here.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-02-13 06:52 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] peripherus-max.livejournal.com
Also, I don't understand how free speech where everything is fair game is a pro-Western concession, exactly.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-02-13 06:54 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] charleshatcher.livejournal.com
Surely the values of Christ haven't played much of a role in (Fundamentalist) Christianity for quite some time now.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-02-13 06:54 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nato-dakke.livejournal.com
You're mistaken in thinking that the american mega-churches worship a god that discourages materialism, and encourages self-effacing love of your neighbor. Bush is a mega-church-goer, and believes in the stripped down, marketable version of born again christianity that is sold in those houses.

You couldn't possible mean to imply that the Crusaders back in their day weren't on their own "mission from god", despite the ridiculous cruelty and death they rained down on christians and muslims alike.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-02-13 06:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] charleshatcher.livejournal.com
Buddha, I hate philosophy?

(no subject)

Date: 2006-02-13 06:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imomus.livejournal.com
It doesn't even happen much here in Japan, if you mean the "right to offend". That's not a right most Japanese people feel they have, or want.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-02-13 07:02 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] peripherus-max.livejournal.com
I also believe that free speech CAN co-exist with principles of tact and contextual discretion. In your perfect world, Nick... is every politician a master international flirt? :)

(no subject)

Date: 2006-02-13 07:08 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nato-dakke.livejournal.com
It would take some pretty damned big miracles, and a total about face of the currently accelerating trend toward hiding in the military bosom of the US to see Japan turn to it's west (China) in favor of it's american connections. Historical circumstance has swung japan far enough in "our" direction that it's not just a simple matter of the choices of the japanese populace who they wanna make friends with.

seperately, taking capitalism as the new binding force, it seems like even the most entrenched of enemies are slowly creeping toward each other in their fundamental beliefs (china most dramatically). Before long, the broadest remaining chasms will be those of historical circumstance... like the china/japan, islam/christian, basque/spanish gaps.

The sinic region (for example) can never substantial territory by war, unless they carry out a full scale extermination of the former inhabitiants of conquered lands. Left in place, the populations of ideologically conquered countries will, at most, mix some sinic blue in with their purple or brown or orange or whatever. History has been wiping out the smaller hold outs for ages, but as we get down to the last few players, uniformity can't be acheived by conquest... to omou.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-02-13 07:11 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] peripherus-max.livejournal.com
This will seem a very naive question, but... what is the major activator for social change in Japan?

Has Japan ever had some sort of equivalent of America's civil rights movement or an analogous time of cultural upheaval on par with the late 60's? It's time for me to do some historical googling. I suppose the time immediately after WWII was no cultural cakewalk.

I'm really enjoying this discussion, btw!

(no subject)

Date: 2006-02-13 07:12 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nato-dakke.livejournal.com
how quickly we forget about swastikas once they go passe.
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